Is Keen not a profitable series?

DHeadshot · Post by **DHeadshot** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:10

Give enemies health such that Pogo Strikes take longer to kill enemies than shots?

Post by **Keening_Product** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:15

RoboBlue wrote:He can squish skypests already, so might it be possible to patch other enemies to be pogo-stomped?

That spoils the fun a bit though - DHeadshot's on the right track.

guynietoren · Post by **guynietoren** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 14:18

Would be fun to shove guys with the business end of the pogo stick, sending some creatures flying.
I still would like to see wall pogo-ing in a mod. Would be a fun game play mechanism.

DHeadshot · Post by **DHeadshot** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 13:33

Or maybe the Pogo could be used as a finishing move on enemies. You could shoot them with your Neural Stunner to stun them, then kill them with your pogo! You know, something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztyd67cihPw

Bubbatom · Post by **Bubbatom** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 21:32

DHeadshot wrote:Or maybe the Pogo could be used as a finishing move on enemies. You could shoot them with your Neural Stunner to stun them, then kill them with your pogo!

This was done in Keen GBC, you would stun an enemy and then quickly pogo on it before it started moving around again.

Syllypryde · Post by **Syllypryde** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 21:39

Bubbatom wrote:
DHeadshot wrote:This was done in Keen GBC, you would stun an enemy and then quickly pogo on it before it started moving around again.

Look how lame that game was? Trying to emmulate it will not make Keen profitable again.

Bubbatom · Post by **Bubbatom** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 22:01

Yeah, it would have worked better if it was just one stun, instead of using those annoying pogostick controls.

DHeadshot · Post by **DHeadshot** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 23:33

Bubbatom wrote:
DHeadshot wrote:Or maybe the Pogo could be used as a finishing move on enemies. You could shoot them with your Neural Stunner to stun them, then kill them with your pogo!
This was done in Keen GBC, you would stun an enemy and then quickly pogo on it before it started moving around again.

*Facepalm*

I know! That was the point I was making!

Bubbatom · Post by **Bubbatom** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:07

DHeadshot wrote:Facepalm* I know! That was the point I was making!

Oh, sorry I wasn't able to watch the video on my Iphone

.

TerminILL · Post by **TerminILL** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:18

I wasn't able to watch the video on my desktop. That video quality was awful.

DHeadshot · Post by **DHeadshot** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:38

TerminILL wrote:I wasn't able to watch the video on my desktop. That video quality was awful.

I forgot to knock the quality back up after my last video, which had a voice-over and thus pushed the file-size-per-frame up...

guynietoren · Post by **guynietoren** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:02

Syllypryde wrote:
Bubbatom wrote:
DHeadshot wrote:This was done in Keen GBC, you would stun an enemy and then quickly pogo on it before it started moving around again.
Look how lame that game was? Trying to emmulate it will not make Keen profitable again.

Hah those were about my thoughts...
"hmm, as good as that game huh?"

Game mechanics need to stay simple, but still remain flexible to hold up to q lot of variety. Keeping game elements challenging but not confusing.

I think Keen would be fun with a controlled way to speed up things and reduce clutter that slow down the pace. Which isn't what Keen currently is about. Being a game that you need to take slowly to avoid an instant death that will set you back a long ways. Perhaps having check points that you can toggle between might help the save/reload mess of Galaxy.

But the point is to enhance Keen, not to make another game Keenish.
I also wonder how hard it would be to add more frames into Keen's animations. Although that would have to be left for another mod.

Post by **Ceilick** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 22:40

Keep in mind, guys, this thread isn't about modding Keen, it's about whether Keen would be profitable as a 'modern' franchise. That means a whole new Keen engine, albeit possibly one with very similar gameplay.

Lava89 · Post by **Lava89** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:59

Thanks Ceilick!

Yeah, the thread's idea was to explore the reasons why Keen hasn't been picked up and revamped. Since we've pretty much gone through the ideas there's not much more that can be said, aside from someone coming in and looking at this at a different angle.

But I do think we know a few things:
A) Keen has to be somewhat profitable:

The games haven't been completely abandoned...in fact ID cares enough about selling the game that they commissioned Keen GBC and even put the games on Steam (which takes a little bit of work, as opposed to just letting them sit there solely on ID's store website).

And if we are to assume that Tom Hall would make a new Keen game, once he was legally able to do so, then we can also assume that would be a good indicator as whether ID has let the rights go. In essence, the fact that Tom Hall Hasn't made a new Keen means that ID doesn't feel like giving them up so easily.

B) Keen is not profitable enough:

If we are to look at the treatment that Wolfenstein 3D received, it has received a major reboot and a sequel. If ID really wanted to revamp Keen into a money making machine, they'd have put a new Keen game on a home console or PC with high quality production values. This isn't to knock Keen GBC....but simply put, if they cared enough about Keen's profitability, it would've gotten the same treatment Wolfenstein received and had more effort into marketing a Keen franchise.

This puts the Keen series in a rut-- it is not profitable enough to be given new life, but its also not worthless to ID, or they'd have given it up to Tom Hall, who would've put alot more heart and effort into a new, official Keen project.

The only conclusion I can come up with is that we are not that profitable as a fanbase-- our demand for a new Keen game won't bring in the revenue they're looking for. Where there's a demand, a supply will surely follow. I assume this is is because of how large our fanbase is, not the strength of a desire for a new Keen game. We are the biggest difference between a Keen knock-off and an official Keen game. As an official Keen game has more potential to immediately tap into profits from our support of the series.

None of this is bad, of course, if ID keeps out of our way from making mods and fangames, and we respect the legal boundaries (i.e. we don't sell our Keen stuff), we really don't need a new official Keen game, especially since me, and I'm sure many others, would only trust a modern and official Keen game in the hands of Tom Hall or really big Keen fans

Spatula · Post by **Spatula** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 17:02

CKeen wrote: As to WHY keen wouldn't be successful, as I said we discussed this countless times, but:

1) The era of 2d platformers is over, and 3d platformers are pretty much dead as well. The only ones who still do it are Nintendo and Capcom I believe, and some sporadic platformers (which sometimes are pretty good though) coming out every now and then.
2) The gaming industry has changed and now the "big titles" are assassin's creed and call of duty. I for one don't like them.
3) No one would give a damn about commander keen, only chance of it being somewhat acceptable would be to make it an iphone game. Then again, I don't see that happening.

"only Capcom and Nintendo" is nothing to balk at. MegaMan 9 + 10 were very successful and indicated a profitable market existed for retro 2D platform games.

I agree that the best market would be iphone/android. Keen's fans were not console gamers back in the early 90s, but the PC gaming market is so utterly different now, and a new Keen title would seem small compared to the massive games made now for the platform. Keen would be a tremendously satisfying game on the go, and it would look very good in comparison to most of the schlock being made for mobile devices.

But, it could be made on the cheap. They could very easily take the gameplay from Keens 4-6, update a couple things, and churn out a new trilogy with a tiny amount of the resources a title like Mass Effect 3 would take.