Lava89 wrote:The one thing a company would have to consider is that making a new Keen game would open the door to the existing Keen fanbase. Something a bargain bin clone wouldn't be able to tap into, which makes me wonder, how profitable are we?
ARGH THEY MADE KEENS SKIN PEACH COLOR AND ITS ALL 3D AND $#1+ NOW GAH WTF Y THEY RUIN KEEN
agreed that Braid is a similar 2D platformer with both action and puzzles, but what it has that keen doesn't have, which made it profitable (as an indie, but still), is the fact that there are gigantic, level-wide puzzles and a great mechanic for the game to progress. in short, keen would need several things to be as profitable as any other game.
larger levels. no modern game can be sped-run through in a mere half hour (a la keen 4)
an interesting mechanic. for braid, that mechanic was time travel. for keen not to have a unique function that seperates it from the pack, then it might as well be a mario bootleg
more in-depth gameplay. if you take a look at a few 2010/2011 games, each one (except those meaningless FPS war games) has a goal that isn't "kill X" or "rescue X from Y". now you need something elaborate, like "rescue X from Y so you can prevent the destruction of Z at the hands of X, so you capture Y from Q" and so on.
lastly, keen needs to have a darker reboot. nowadays, games are either gritty (metal gear solid), or saccarhine (mario). keen obviously can't compete with the japanese giants, so what if keen was of a "darker" genre?
deep post is deep.
StupidBunny wrote:
kuliwil wrote:I wish that oa;fdjgnae;ogubneaogiearh;igbnerfgoajfsgoefnh
Exploration: The player explores in order to solve puzzles (find switches, keys, etc), pass challenges, gain items, see new and interesting things (new scenery, new creatures, basically anything graphically new or new in graphical configuration), and ultimately locate the exit of a level to progress on the world map.
Puzzles/Challenges: The player solves puzzles and (Key Doors, platforms, bridges, Mazes, etc) in order to explore, gain items, and progress through levels. The player completes challenges (enemies, hazards, difficult jumps) in order to explore, gain points, and progress through the level.
Items: The player collects items to advance their score, gain extra lives, gain ammunition, and progress past puzzles (midlevel and world map).
Level and Story Progression: The player's ultimate goal is to beat the levels, see everything of interest, and complete the story.
Exploration and having plenty of new things to see and original configurations of known things, offset by puzzles and challenges (which are potential new and original things in themselves) is key to making the Keen formula successful. Keen does not need to be an 'open world' or sandbox environment for this to happen; that would be completely different from the Keen formula. Keen is a hybrid between exploration and progression gameplay, progression being chalking down the levels as complete and ultimately completing them and the story.
A successful, modern Keen game would:
Consistently provide new and interesting things for the player to discover over the course of level and the game as a whole. These can be as mundane as encountering new backgrounds or as interesting as discovering a new enemy. The player would encounter new and interesting puzzles over the course of the game, variety in Key/door puzzles, switch/platform puzzles, bridge puzzles, etc. They would find new types of puzzles and challenges previously unseen in Keen games, thing which relate to exploration in similar as well as new ways. Players would consistently encounter new creatures with new ways of interacting with them, new environments and things to interact with in those environments.
New items would be added, but not necessarily as additional 'moves' for Keen ala the pogo-stick, but as temporary things which Keen could utilize in either very specific situations or as one time uses for a certain puzzle or challenge. Keen doesn't need a huge list of combos or tools constantly at his disposal, although there may be a few additions that might be Keenish.
Story progression would need to be more immersive in the levels and in general, with more dynamics and potentially story effecting actions mid game. Cut scenes, a variety of messages and interactions, etc, would work well.
The main things I feel would need to be reevaluated in the Keen formula are the purpose of points and lives, which is a general challenge in Keen modding, but making these concepts relevant shouldn't be too hard outside that context and with the freedom of a new game engine.
The Keen formula is a good one, and modern game engines could easily implement all these concepts familiar to the original Keen games to a much larger and broader extent. It's merely a question of understanding the formula and having the motivation (and the legal rights) to make it happen.
Otherwise basically what RoboBlue said, which I believe I said earlier; might as well just start a new franchise with the same basic formula, because Keen himself, while dear to at least some of us on the forum and other casual fans, probably isn't worth the legal effort of obtaining.
Ceilick wrote:Keen does not need to be an 'open world' or sandbox environment for this to happen; that would be completely different from the Keen formula.
...did i say this?
i really don't know, this isn't supposed to be a retort.
StupidBunny wrote:
kuliwil wrote:I wish that oa;fdjgnae;ogubneaogiearh;igbnerfgoajfsgoefnh
MegaTrip wrote: Bosses make for good epic challenges, instead of the same old dodge / jump / avoid / find.
dodge / jump / avoid / find / shoot
Bosses count as shoot, so they're still "same old". Even moreso in fact, IMKO. Keen is more about exploration than action sequences. There's room for beefed up enemies, but not in the style of Megaman or Sonic.
Is even the idea of bosses getting a bit outdated? I mean, we're talking about profitability in a market where Facebook games are becoming more and more of a factor and the idea of some epic finish is often discarded in favour of gradual goals and finding new things. Keen's exploration factor fills that well - I don't think a boss would help.
Having bosses in Keen like having the Batmobile in your Rush Hour board game just to fucl up your exit.
Keening_Product was defeated before the game.
"Wise words. One day I may even understand what they mean." - Levellass
How about a boss whos defeat hinges on you skilfully baiting him to a certain area while avoiding his fire?
Sort of like a Shikadi mine? Sure. Though I'd hardly define that as a 'boss'. It's more an extension of a puzzle that happens to involve a dangerous moving entity. Now, the level 16 vorticon in Keen 1 or the Mangling Machine in Keen 3, those are more like traditional bosses, but they still have a puzzle aspect to them.
When I include shooting stuff as "same old", I don't mean it's a bad thing. There's a delicate balance to be struck between action, puzzles and exploration.
That said, the creatures in the Galaxy series were disturbingly unimaginative. More interesting AI in general, capable of being more intricately incorporated with the level design, is what a modern Keen game would call for.
Then again... we are talking about profitability here. Some pretty retarded things are profitable these days, so maybe fucling up and dumbing down the entire gameplay is what would make money.
