Secret Rooms in Underwater Levels

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Scilicet
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Secret Rooms in Underwater Levels

Post by Scilicet »

Why are there no secret rooms in the underwater levels? Does the coding of Keen's swimming movement prohibit such a thing? Am I just not observant or curious enough? If anything, I think an underwater level would be ripe with potential for secret rooms. Perhaps I have watched too many documentaries on exploring underwater caves.

Ceilick
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Post by Ceilick »

There is no limiation that I'm aware of that prevents this. Seems like just a design decision, although I can't think of a reason for it.

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lemm
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Post by lemm »

Underwater levels need more fore-foreground tiles too, with a few cutaway sections here and there.


I just think it looks neat.

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MortimerInBlack
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Post by MortimerInBlack »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only underwater level in all the Keen games is the Well of Wishes in Keen 4.

That place has at least one 'secret' passage, near the end, right under the Guardian. It's a handy space that can save you from the Dopefish(es), but it doesn't lead anywhere. I believe there are a few more, i think some with candy in them, but i don't think any of them lead to a secret room.
The Viking II lander actually did land on a 'rock' on Mars.
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/masterCa ... =1975-083C

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Roobar
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Post by Roobar »

Image

Now that I look into this level,
Image

1. How the councils could breath and live underwater?
2. What a council member is doing there?
3. Why there are clouds in the water?
4. How this can be a well when it clearly doesn't look like well?
5. Isn't it enormous for a well?
6. Why is it called well of wishes?
7. What wishes do perform and how?
8. How duckweed can grow on a reinforced concrete?
9. Who would put mines in this well?
10. Why the mines are moving endlessly in two directions instead of lying on the ground?
11. Why isn't dark in a well?
12. If the Dopefishes eat everything, why they don't eat Sprites?
13. If Billy can't even swim, how he can be diving?
14. Why is there only one underwater level?
15. Coming to think of, is this level rushed and unpolished as the Cave of Oblivion?

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Post by Ceilick »

MortimerInBlack wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only underwater level in all the Keen games is the Well of Wishes in Keen 4.

That place has at least one 'secret' passage, near the end, right under the Guardian. It's a handy space that can save you from the Dopefish(es), but it doesn't lead anywhere. I believe there are a few more, i think some with candy in them, but i don't think any of them lead to a secret room.
Scicilet may be referring to the underwater levels in my mod. They don't have secret areasd because I simply copied the design scheme of the well of wishes.

I've previewed the level in an editor: there are no secret areas leading to points.
wiivn wrote:1. How the councils can breath and live underwater?
2. What a council member is doing there?
3. Why there are clouds in the water?
4. How this can be a well when it clearly doesn't look like well?
5. Isn't it enormous for a well?
6. Why is it called well of wishes?
7. What wishes do perform and how?
8. How duckweed can grow on a reinforced concrete?
9. Who would put mines in this well?
10. Why the mines are moving endlessly in two directions instead of lying on the ground?
11. Why isn't it dark in a well?
12. If the Dopefishes eat everything, why they don't eat Sprites?
13. If Billy can't even swim, how he can be diving?
14. Why is there only one underwater level?
15. Coming to think of, is this level rushed and unpolished as the Cave of Oblivion?
1. Council Members are immortal; the Shikadi couldn't kill them. Makes sense that they don't need to breathe and can't drown.

2. Shikadi stranded him there the same way they did with all the council members. How exactly they did that is a question.

3. Those are pieces of coral, not clouds.

4. The beginning of the level clearly has a long, well-like appearance.

5. Not surprising that a well would tap into underwater caverns.

6. A "Wishing Well" is iconic to folklore, something that the Shadowlands and Keen 4 in general relates to.

7. Figure of speech.

8. The platforms are ice, although that may be equally problematic for growing weeds.

9. Probably the Shikadi; the story indicates that they placed traps in the Shadowlands.

10. Because moving mines are more dangerous and the Shikadi are devious.

11. Same general ambient light as the caves and other levels. A lore friendly explanation might be the properties of water on Gnosticus IV, similar to 'life water'.

12. The help section states that this is because the sprites shoot.

13. He probably just can't hold his breath, which is where the wetsuit comes in.

14. Should there be more?

15. I have a hard time seeing how this level could be considered poorly designed. The sections of this level are divided excellently for logical exploration. Once the player reaches the bottom, they have four options to explore, each of which is very linear which balances the difficulty between searching for the exit and avoiding hazards very well, imko.

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XkyRauh
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Post by XkyRauh »

Such harsh attitudes and biases towards a unique level! It's tough to construct an underwater level, given how different the player interaction is in the level...

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Roobar
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Post by Roobar »

Those are corals? :crazy They might also be popcorns!
As for the level design, I'm not saying it's poorly designed. It's well designed although imo an underwater level deserves separate tile blocks instead of using the ice one (which apparently could be considered as concrete as well). And probably 1 or 2 doors and other underwater variations.
Thanks for the answers.

@Xky What harsh attitude dude? Yeah, the questions are silly, I just typed what was coming to my mind.

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Bubbatom
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Post by Bubbatom »

I've never considered the "ice" platforms to just be just ice. For example in crystalus I consider them to be crystal, I always thought they were ice in miragia and then for the well of wishes I just thought they were either crystal or another type of rock, but never ice. And I've never heard it being called "concrete". You probably wouldn't find concrete in a mirage :confused
Anyway these are my opinions so they aren't correct :p
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Post by Grimson »

They are the same "ice" tiles, but I believe they are supposed to look like regular rock, only underwater (hence the blue tint).
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RoboBlue
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Post by RoboBlue »

wiivn wrote: 3. Why there are clouds in the water?
They're pieces of gum that the Dopefish stuck to the screen. :dopefish
wiivn wrote:4. How this can be a well when it clearly doesn't look like well?
The Keen 4 demo tileset had some stone tiles that would have been more suitable for a well.
wiivn wrote:7. What wishes do perform and how?
It grants your wish for the game to end.
wiivn wrote:12. If the Dopefishes eat everything, why they don't eat Sprites?
The Sprites probably kill and eat Dopefish with their weapons.
wiivn wrote:14. Why is there only one underwater level?
I think the designers realized that Well of Wishes wouldn't be much fun to play through more than once, having only three enemies and no weapons.
wiivn wrote:15. Coming to think of, is this level rushed and unpolished as the Cave of Oblivion?
No.
Image

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entropicdecay
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Post by entropicdecay »

The council members are aliens, presumably, and it's entirely possible that they can breathe underwater... you might say if that's the case, then why can they not communicate clearly in that environment, but I think I'd chalk that up the games' cartoonish style. Underwater-dwelling cartoon characters tend to gargle (see Mer-Man from He-Man and the Masters of the Universe or Seaspray in the first Transformers cartoon)...

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No. 1 Machop Fan
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Post by No. 1 Machop Fan »

wiivn wrote:Now that I look into this level,

1. How the councils could breath and live underwater?
9. Who would put mines in this well?
10. Why the mines are moving endlessly in two directions instead of lying on the ground?
12. If the Dopefishes eat everything, why they don't eat Sprites?
1. They can't drown; they're immortal.
9. The Shikadi. They don't want the council member rescued, right?
10. Maybe they're buoyant? Shikadi technology is far more advanced than human technology.
12. Because Sprites fight back.
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Keeper
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Post by Keeper »

About Valid Question #8 - I don't think that's either concrete or ice. It could easily be limestone, which is often abundant in watery areas.

It has such a strange color because... well, when you work with EGA you don't really have many options, right? :dopefish

And by the way, the game's Help section specifically mentions that Dopefish do not attack/eat Sprites.



P.S. Ha! The time is exactly 03:14 right now. I should really go to bed, there's lots of work to do tomorrow... oh wait, it's been tomorrow for three hours already!

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