Keen 4 - Lifewater

Here, you can get help with anything or just chat about the original Commander Keen games.
SilentViper
Meep
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 15:38

Keen 4 - Lifewater

Post by SilentViper »

Hi,

does anybody know how to get the extra lifes in Keen 4 - Level "Lifewater Oasis" without cheats? I just read in a german forum that there is a way when the snake is barking you that you will fly to the lifes (just to one). But ok, that makes no sence.
I think there can be a possibility to get with a borad or maybe with the diving suit...?

Any ideas?
Best regards
Jonas

Image
Image
User avatar
Syllypryde
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 18:33
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Post by Syllypryde »

Originally, the five lifewater flasks were supposed to be reachable. Somehow by the game's final release they now are not. It is impossible to reach them without cheating. As for when the snake barks (basically, the Wormouth attacking Keen), flying to the lives (dying), is nothing more than Keen dying when hit by the Wormouth. When Keen is hit by something that can kill him, he flies in the air in a loop pattern and then drops to fall off the screen completely. On his way down if he hits another deadly object this loop pattern will repeat. On his way down he can also hit point items or even the lifewater flask as he does in your screenshot. The only purpose this actually serves is getting his life back after losing it. It would be pointless to purposely die in order to get a lifewater flask since it is impossible for Keen to get all five of them while he is dying.
.niarb ym fo
snoitulovnoc eht tuaba
selbbarcs ssensuoicsnoc
rehgih a ekil smees
User avatar
tulip
Flower Pot
Posts: 2520
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:50
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

Post by tulip »

is that water below deadly? If yes, it should be possible to get more lives by the saving/loading glitch, after you got hit by the wormmouth. dead keen would just need to bounce for the trick to work, I never tried it myself so I can tell if he bounces there.
Image You crack me up little buddy!
User avatar
guynietoren
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 886
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:57
Location: Kansas City
Contact:

Post by guynietoren »

Right. Plus the water is deadly except for in the well of wishes. The scuba gear is only usable on the map as far I'm aware, or at least how I would program it.

Edit: Post number 314!
User avatar
Syllypryde
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 18:33
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Post by Syllypryde »

guynietoren wrote:Right. Plus the water is deadly except for in the well of wishes. The scuba gear is only usable on the map as far I'm aware, or at least how I would program it.

Edit: Post number 314!
Actually, the water is not deadly. If you use the clipping cheat to go down there you can walk on the floor at the very bottom. But you would need the jump cheat in order to reach the lifewater flasks.
.niarb ym fo
snoitulovnoc eht tuaba
selbbarcs ssensuoicsnoc
rehgih a ekil smees
User avatar
guynietoren
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 886
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:57
Location: Kansas City
Contact:

Post by guynietoren »

Oh ok. Still interesting though. Too bad the thing is just a big troll instead of a legit secret area.
User avatar
Syllypryde
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 18:33
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Post by Syllypryde »

guynietoren wrote:Oh ok. Still interesting though. Too bad the thing is just a big troll instead of a legit secret area.
As I had said it was originally supposed to a reachable secret area. I wish I knew what happened between the time the level was first created to the time the game was finally released.
.niarb ym fo
snoitulovnoc eht tuaba
selbbarcs ssensuoicsnoc
rehgih a ekil smees
User avatar
Pokota
Vortininja
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 19:49

Post by Pokota »

Syllypryde wrote:
guynietoren wrote:Oh ok. Still interesting though. Too bad the thing is just a big troll instead of a legit secret area.
As I had said it was originally supposed to a reachable secret area. I wish I knew what happened between the time the level was first created to the time the game was finally released.
My guess is that the Pyramid of the Forbidden was not originally sealed off the way it is...
There was something here, but my yorp ate it.
User avatar
Paramultart
VBB's Partner in Crime
Posts: 3004
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:36

Post by Paramultart »

I remember when I was little, thinking "How the heck am I supposed to get that?".

Then again, I wasn't able to figure out the Pyramid of Forbidden back then, either.
"Father Mabeuf was surveying his plants"
Keening_Product
Kuliwho?
Posts: 2167
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:02
Location: Tied up in the Oracle Chamber's basement
Contact:

Post by Keening_Product »

Maybe the water was originally meant to kill you so you did bounce along and get multiple extra lives (although losing the one you died with), as Tulip said.

Is this accessible in the K4 Demo?
Keening_Product was defeated before the game.

"Wise words. One day I may even understand what they mean." - Levellass
User avatar
Bubbatom
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 0:55
Location: South Australia

Post by Bubbatom »

Lifewater Oasis in the keen 4 demo is almost exactly the same as the full version's (from what I've found).
Image
User avatar
Commander Spleen
Lord of the Foobs
Posts: 2384
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 22:54
Location: Border Village
Contact:

Post by Commander Spleen »

The fact that the water is improvised from map tiles makes me pretty suspicious that it was meant as a troll.
User avatar
Paramultart
VBB's Partner in Crime
Posts: 3004
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:36

Post by Paramultart »

Commander Spleen wrote:The fact that the water is improvised from map tiles makes me pretty suspicious that it was meant as a troll.
Bah... I never understood this golden rule you mappers have about not using map tiles in levels and vice versa.
I think there are certainly exceptions, such as this water, and other things like stars, or solid colors, et cetera.

I still support the theory that you were meant to collect these items after the wormouth gets you, but I don't think there was ever meant to be a line of hazardous water to where you go bouncing around collecting a ton of lives.
I think that this design was intentional, and the 1-Ups are dispersed just enough to not go overboard... So you have a chance at getting your life back, but not clustered together to where you are rewarded for sucking at the game.
"Father Mabeuf was surveying his plants"
Benvolio
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 976
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 12:43
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Post by Benvolio »

I agree with Paramultart here regarding the map tile - I personally found little details like recognising the map water in this level to add to the game's mystique, especially when I was young and unaware what developing a game like this was actually like. Little one-off idiosyncratic details, such as the map-border blue marble stuff in level 3 of Keen1 or the ice at the bottom of the teleporter level on Keen1, make the game charming in my opinion.

Besides, were they really going to spend an afternoon drawing 2.5d water akin to that in Keen6 for one scene in a free game? Unlikely!

With regards to a more generalised taboo about map tiles in levels, certainly there are limits; when i used to leveledit Keen1, using tiles such as the red background out of context felt wrong and was naturally avoided to give a more authentic feel!!
User avatar
Syllypryde
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1025
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 18:33
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Post by Syllypryde »

Keening_Product wrote:Maybe the water was originally meant to kill you so you did bounce along and get multiple extra lives (although losing the one you died with), as Tulip said.

Is this accessible in the K4 Demo?
This would be possible if the water was deadly, but I can assure you that it is not. I was wrong about one thing, though. I stated in an earlier post that once you were down there you had to use the jump cheat in order to reach the lifewater flasks, not so! You can reach the flasks with the normal pogo in all three skill levels.
.niarb ym fo
snoitulovnoc eht tuaba
selbbarcs ssensuoicsnoc
rehgih a ekil smees
Post Reply