source code found?

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Lunick
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Post by Lunick » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:39

r.i.p. source codes
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Post by Paramultart » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:56

I guess K1n9_Duk3 is right.

An unauthorized copy of the source wouldn't be very useful if we couldn't release the modified executables.

I just wish they found the source code earlier when there was a good chance of it being released. (When ID Software was controlled by a group of very awesome nerds.)

Now that the big bloated Zenimax owns ID, and Carmack isn't even involved anymore, there's no chance of those rich bigwigs ever continuing the ID tradition of releasing free source code.
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Post by Benvolio » Wed Aug 26, 2015 17:45

if we couldn't release the modified executables
My understanding of all this is quite limited, but would it be fair to say that knowing the source code could lead to more sophisticated patches - rather than necessarily having to modify the exe, so that in actual fact legality would be no more an obstacle than it's ever been with modding?!? If the modifications of the code are particularly big, then perhaps a more advanced ckpatch, and more generous memory settings e.g. in Dosbox, could facilitate them.

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Post by Levellass » Wed Aug 26, 2015 23:39

As Lemm will tell you, altering the source is far easier than patching. Patches are in machine code which needs to be translated.

I'm not sure if they'd care about modified executables, not as long as nobody was making any money. That's the golden rule of business. Of course it would be a trivial matter to convert a modified executable into a series of patches and thus get around things that way.
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Post by DaVince » Thu Aug 27, 2015 14:03

Levellass wrote:As Lemm will tell you, altering the source is far easier than patching. Patches are in machine code which needs to be translated.
I was about to say. Also, source code from disassembled code is based on the optimized code and stripped of any useful information like function and variable names, comments, et cetera. This stuff is just easier if you have the original, unaltered source.
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Post by Paramultart » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:33

I've never had any problems poking around a game's source code, but the disassemblies I've seen are a nightmare for your average programmer or modding hobbyist.

If I didn't know any better, I'd think Lemm and Lass were behind suppressing the source releases to assume dominance over the modding community.

Hmm.... :disguised
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Post by Levellass » Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:04

Actually we're engaged in a war. Lemm wants to force everyone to use The One True Source while I want to stick to the True Path of machine code. Whoever wins, you lose.


(Though the differences between us are remarkable. Lemm's patches are littered with comments. I mean *littered*; #push Seriously? You need to keep track of that? You need to annotate *everything*? And you say machine code is confusing? I don't know, maybe this is why women never get into programming.
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Post by K1n9_Duk3 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 14:21

DaVince wrote:Also, source code from disassembled code is based on the optimized code and stripped of any useful information like function and variable names, comments, et cetera. This stuff is just easier if you have the original, unaltered source.
K1n9_Duk3 wrote:I am not saying that it would be an easy task, but it is definitely possible.
When I say "disassembling" I mean running a disassembler on the original EXE and then assigning names for all the functions and variables. That is what I would call a "complete" disassembly.

Doing such a complete disassembly requires some knowledge about the hardware handling. In case of Keen 4-6 and Dreams, all of this is in the ID_* engine files, which were released as part of the Catacomb 3-D and Keen Dreams sources (in slightly modified versions, probably), so you have some reference to work with. The rest are the game-specific routines such as actor movement and AI routines, which should be known considering the fact that there are patches to change that behavior.

Once you have a "complete" disassembly, you can start porting the code back to C and you'll end up with something very similar to the original code -- if you did it right. A talented person could do all of this in a matter of months.
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Post by T-Squared » Wed Sep 02, 2015 20:15

Levellass wrote:Actually we're engaged in a war. Lemm wants to force everyone to use The One True Source while I want to stick to the True Path of machine code. Whoever wins, you lose.


(Though the differences between us are remarkable. Lemm's patches are littered with comments. I mean *littered*; #push Seriously? You need to keep track of that? You need to annotate *everything*? And you say machine code is confusing? I don't know, maybe this is why women never get into programming.

I don't want to force the issue, but it seems that everything has gone to sith. I'm not taking this lightly, though. I think we're all just wandering, jetting and eyeing each other around in a dark room.
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Post by Levellass » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:22

K1n9_Duk3 wrote:Doing such a complete disassembly requires some knowledge about the hardware handling. In case of Keen 4-6 and Dreams, all of this is in the ID_* engine files, which were released as part of the Catacomb 3-D and Keen Dreams sources (in slightly modified versions, probably), so you have some reference to work with. The rest are the game-specific routines such as actor movement and AI routines, which should be known considering the fact that there are patches to change that behavior.

Once you have a "complete" disassembly, you can start porting the code back to C and you'll end up with something very similar to the original code -- if you did it right. A talented person could do all of this in a matter of months.
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