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Keen 6 fixing bugs

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 20:38
by szemi
I want to ask whether it is possible to fix the "Rhetorical Question", the "Eye am stuck", the "Blorb stuck in a platform" and the "A nose for trouble" bugs for example: http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/Keen_6_Bugs


Because there's already a bugfix patch for Molly, so that she cannot escape anymore (in version 1.4), that's why I'm asking. But what about the 4 mentioned patches I mentioned above? Possible to fix them with patch or somehow?

Re: Keen 6 fixing bugs

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:00
by Nisaba
this sounds like a modding related question and might be better off @: keenmodding.org

Re: Keen 6 fixing bugs

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:10
by szemi
Nisaba wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:00
this sounds like a modding related question and might be better off @: keenmodding.org
1. I know.
2. I'm not blind.
3. This topic is not supposed to be modding-related, I only asked whether it is possible to fix those bugs or not. No matter, how you see it. Okay?
4. Instead of coming with keenmodding.org, you should have at least answered the question after all what I said.


EDIT:

5. I already posted 2 topics (the Eye am Stuck and the Nospike bugfix) 5 days ago on keenmodding.org and no answer yet (straaaange...nope?), so what are you talking?
https://keenmodding.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3179
https://keenmodding.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3178

Re: Keen 6 fixing bugs

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 22:46
by Nisaba
I'm glad that we do both agree with the purposes of both forums.
To state my thoughts frankly, it seems to me quite possible that no one knows yet how to tackle those bug problems. At least the likelihood of this presumption seems to be reasonable, don't you think?
And out of a sense of duty please allow me to answer you non-modding-related-question: yes, it is.

Re: Keen 6 fixing bugs

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 22:55
by szemi
I think so. Nobody can handle all these bugs (yet) and moreover, it was just curiosity by my side as only the Molly thing is that is fixed by patch (on KeenWiki).
And to answer you non-modding-related-question: yes, it is.
Thanks. :)

Re: Keen 6 fixing bugs

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 23:52
by K1n9_Duk3
szemi wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 20:38
I want to ask whether it is possible to fix the "Rhetorical Question", the "Eye am stuck", the "Blorb stuck in a platform" and the "A nose for trouble" bugs for example: http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/Keen_6_Bugs
Does anyone know what the word "platform" in "Blorb stuck in a platform" actually means? There is no screenshot for that bug which would make it clear what the author of that bug report was actually talking about. I assumed it meant a platform object (or "goplat" or whatever you want to call it), but I can't think of any way this would interfere with a Blorb, since the Blorb doesn't care about directional arrows or block icons placed in the info layer, nor does it interact with platform objects. The only way to get a Blorb stuck after flipping a switch would be a switch that toggles (blocking) tiles to appear near the Blorb object, causing it to get stuck in the tiles.

I guess that "Eye am stuck" and "A nose for trouble" could be fixed by making sure that the hitbox for all sprites of that enemy have the same size. I think the reason why the objects get stuck in walls is that the hitbox for some sprites is bigger or in a different position than it is for other sprites, so when the enemy changes to a different sprite while very close to a wall, the new hitbox is actually (at least partially) inside the wall, causing the enemy to get stuck.

As for the "Rhetorical Question"... I'm not sure why anyone would want to fix a bug that is described as "almost impossible to get [...] to work, especially without cheating" on that wiki page. Again, the phrasing on the wiki page isn't perfect, and I'm not exactly an expert when it comes to how the enemies behave in the Keen games. What I assume to be the correct behavior is that the Nospike sometimes walks over the edge of a cliff when it is chasing the player. If the Nospike ever ends up standing in the air for any reason (see "A nose for trouble"), it will face the camera and after a short delay, the question mark appears above its head. It stays visible for about 1 second, then the question mark disappears and after another short delay, the Nospike starts falling and becomes stunned as soon as it hits the ground. There doesn't seem to be a way to shoot the Nospike during this sequence, and touching it also won't hurt Keen. If I'm not mistaken, the bug is that there is a rare chance that the question mark doesn't disappear. Is that correct?

Re: Keen 6 fixing bugs

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:31
by Nisaba
K1n9_Duk3 wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 23:52
Does anyone know what the word "platform" in "Blorb stuck in a platform" actually means? There is no screenshot for that bug which would make it clear what the author of that bug report was actually talking about. I assumed it meant a platform object (or "goplat" or whatever you want to call it), but I can't think of any way this would interfere with a Blorb, since the Blorb doesn't care about directional arrows or block icons placed in the info layer, nor does it interact with platform objects. The only way to get a Blorb stuck after flipping a switch would be a switch that toggles (blocking) tiles to appear near the Blorb object, causing it to get stuck in the tiles.
I asked CKeen aka. Dynamo (the author of this bug report) what he meant by that. I'm quoting:

CKeen aka. Dynamo wrote:uh, what am I looking at
that's a bug I added in 2010, almost 9 years ago
I do not remember what it was about by now, lol
but it's probably a bug in the keen 6 secret level
and platform is likely the one that blocks passage
the cyan platform basically [...] or bridge [...] or maybe it means a floating platform? really not sure
I'd recommend going to that level and testing
NY00123 wrote:It's obviously the switch-toggleable bridge. Toggle it on right when a blorb is going "through" it, and it'll get stuck.
Can also be reproduced in level 13 if you're playing on hard.
RoboBlue wrote:all switch toggleable bridges are like that in keen 4-6
I used to have tons of fun tricking enemies in Keen 4 into walking on those platforms and getting stuck in midair [...]

Re: Keen 6 fixing bugs

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 21:21
by K1n9_Duk3
Thanks for the info. The way I see it, the only way to avoid this "bug" is to design the levels in a way that makes it impossible for a Blorb to move to an area that has a bridge that can be toggled by a switch.