What would be in your ideal TUIT?

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Galaxieretter
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Post by Galaxieretter »

In the final level Keen and Mort have to start slugging it out. :rolleyes

I agree with keeping only one weapon (Neural stunner) and the pogo. Adding in more weapons and abilities isn't Commander Keen. They were good enough for him to save the world with twice, they'll work the third time.
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Post by DaVince »

Galaxieretter wrote:In the final level Keen and Mort have to start slugging it out. :rolleyes
HELL YES.
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Post by Deltamatic »

Galaxieretter wrote:I agree with keeping only one weapon (Neural stunner) and the pogo. Adding in more weapons and abilities isn't Commander Keen. They were good enough for him to save the world with twice, they'll work the third time.
I don't really think Keen carrying around a belt full of weapons would be great, but a little variety in which weapon you want to carry around could be interesting. The only problems I can see with it are level design if you have to take into account multiple types of firing arcs and how to deal with multiple guns accepting multiple types of ammo. Maybe Vitacorp or ACME comes out with some sort of universal ammo?
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Post by Commander Spleen »

Keen isn't primarily about shooting things, it's about exploration and puzzles. If you want a shoot-em-up, play Jazz Jackrabbit. Maybe a couple of different types of ammo for the stunner, or even control over the power setting mentioned in the story, but that's about it.
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Post by Ceilick »

I don't know about my ideal TUIT as a whole, but I imagine a final fight between Keen and Mortimer something like...

Keen makes it to the nerve center of Mortimer's Universe Destroying Thing, encountering Mortimer there making the final adjustments. The duel begins with a "oh no, it can't be" type moment, the cheesy one liners, etc.

The gameplay starts with Mortimer trying to activate his machine while Keen throws as many stun rays in his direction as possible to distract him. Mort, having the home-turf advantage and superior intellect, has some means of taking multiple stunner shots (maybe he's got a snazzy helmet). Keen still takes one hit, as whatever weapon Mortimer chooses is obviously more deadly than a stunner.

The level (two screen lengths width, maybe) continues this way with Mortimer trying to activate the device, shooting back violently when hit by one of keen's shots. Vastly stronger than Keen (in the situation, at least), the player really has to run for cover when Mortimer starts blasting. Should Keen fail to distract Mort from a terminal after a few seconds, the player experiences an "oops" moment like in keen 2, immediately going to the insane game over screen featuring the Universe whiting out in heat death.

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Post by Galaxieretter »

Commander Spleen wrote:Keen isn't primarily about shooting things, it's about exploration and puzzles.
Not so much. It depends on your style of play. I don't know much about the puzzles. (the only one I can think of is the switch one in Bloog Foods.) It's more generally a platformer. But when I play I am rather liberal with the use of the stunner's trigger.
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Deltamatic
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Post by Deltamatic »

I'd have to say that shooting is at least as major an element as puzzles and exploration. If exploration, puzzles and shooting could all be worked on until they shone (this is the ideal TUIT, of course), then obviously that would be best. If I had to pick just one as a gameplay element, it'd be shooting since that's rather prevalent.

But as I was saying, since this is the ideal TUIT we can just say everything's awesome. :crazy
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Post by Spatula »

ZidaneA wrote:However, unlike Spatula, I don't think TUIT should have to many features. I think the puzzles should rely on the design of the levels, instead of over nine thousand items. (That's one of the over nine thousand things I always loved about CK.)

Multiple weapons would be cool, and harder enemies. I'll be back with more later..
I only suggested one other type of gun... and partly so that you had a gun that worked underwater. the rest was intended to increase the puzzle elements in the game. I think that in order to have clever level design you have to increase the tools a bit. Besides, the wetsuit was already IN a keen game. I think it just makes sense to have it available to explore the water parts of any level. That would be a great addition.

Suppose there were consoles throughout the levels that you could view, which allow you to turn on/off various things, and which show you where certain things are in advance. You could turn on a moving platform, turn off a gun turret or a forcefield, or change the gravity in the room to get to the exit. It seems like a no-brainer. It fits in the Keen universe and it makes the gameplay more dynamic.

I guess when I think of what would happen to Keen if it were developed further in the last 15 years, I see a gradual addition of gameplay elements. Think of the big jump from 1-3 to 4-6. The games got longer, and the gameplay got more complex. You could shoot up/down, grab edges, go through hidden pathways, swim underwater (which was used only once unfortunately), and all those elements were new.

You can't just make a new game without making SOME new gameplay for it. You have to reinvent yourself, take risks.
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Post by Spatula »

Thinking about the games I liked most... I'd have to say it was Keen 2. It had many things that were not in the other games that made the level design better, in my opinion. The one thing I think turns people off to it is the color palette. It's bland and cold, makes all the levels look too similar. That's something TUIT could definitely avoid.

But think about the cool stuff it had:
-light switches (not in ANY other keen game) that controlled whether enemies jumped
-robots that crawled on the walls that you often needed to use to get places
-items that you could stand on (VortiCola cans)
-weapon arrays you had to destroy (which is an element Keen 5 revisited, which many consider the best Keen game). Unlike Keen 5, you could activate these accidentally and blow up Earth. That was awesome.
-levels where you spawn in the air and fall. I think in every other Keen game, you always start on the ground.
-extendable platforms (4-6 revisited this but these were strangely absent in 1 and 3)

On top of that it had two shooting enemies, one of which was possibly the hardest enemy in any game (Vorticon Elite). Say what you will about VortiNinjas; they didn't shoot back at you, and they didn't charge quickly at you.

I think all of these elements NEED to be brought back. As well as others.
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Post by VikingBoyBilly »

Of course mort would start out in a giant robot or something at first. When keen destroys it, THEN they engage in face to face combat :evil
All final bosses have two phases these days you know.
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Deltamatic
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Post by Deltamatic »

Why do that when you could fight face-to-face and then Mort is defeated and hops into his giant robot? That way it goes from less to more impressive/intimidating.
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MortimerInBlack
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Post by MortimerInBlack »

Spatula wrote:Suppose there were consoles throughout the levels that you could view, which allow you to turn on/off various things, and which show you where certain things are in advance. You could turn on a moving platform, turn off a gun turret or a forcefield, or change the gravity in the room to get to the exit. It seems like a no-brainer. It fits in the Keen universe and it makes the gameplay more dynamic.
That's pretty cool. Of course, you would have to know the password to get access. Mort's not dumb :mort
Spatula wrote:-levels where you spawn in the air and fall. I think in every other Keen game, you always start on the ground.
Um, call me absent minded, but i don't remember any levels in K2 or any Keen where u start out in mid-air.

U know what i think TUIT must have? The Universe Bomb is on a timer, set to go off at 3:15 pm or something. Keen must defeat Mort AND disable it by then. And to disable it, it's not some simple thing like input the password. It should be a cool puzzle that no1's ever seen or though of before. Like a giant 8x8 rubix cube or seomthing, except its a new kinda puzzle, and really hard.

That would be Mort's thinking right? Create a puzzle that only a person of IQ 315 could solve. It would be much safer than a code or password.
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Post by Fleexy »

Nice avatar, Galaxie. :lol :lol :lol

There is one in K2 where you spawn in the air. You fall down a really long tube. I don't remember the name, though...
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Post by Galaxieretter »

MortimerInBlack wrote:Um, call me absent minded, but i don't remember any levels in K2 or any Keen where u start out in mid-air.
http://www.galaxieretter.com/keen2-is-messed-up.zip
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Fleexy
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Post by Fleexy »

Galaxieretter wrote:
MortimerInBlack wrote:Um, call me absent minded, but i don't remember any levels in K2 or any Keen where u start out in mid-air.
http://www.galaxieretter.com/keen2-is-messed-up.zip
*Link*
You have to have rigged that. But seriously, there is a (real) K2 level where you fall at the start. Image
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