Commander Keen 64

You can discuss anything about fan-made Commander Keen games here.
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Lava89
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Post by Lava89 »

VikingBoyBilly wrote:I can't help but feel these maps have a "super paper mario effect." You know, you take the original keen levels in their 2-Dness, then flip into the 3rd dimension to see where everything fits together, and that there's lots of other ways to get around. Very cool. Instead of just making completely new levels, which would have been fine by me, a new spin was put on the orignal levels. It'll be Croc and the Legend of the Gobbos all over again :D
Thanks! Yeah, moving them around is the main idea but I am also open to experimentation. The most important goal for the levels is to capture something of the original level it is based off of. Instead just putting Keen in a 3D Mars setting and making up new levels. It just wouldn't feel like a remake of the original game. So if I can capture even a core idea of the level then I believe I've stayed faithful to it.
Keenfan wrote:Wow, the new pictures look even more promising. This is going to be a legend in the Keen community.
And I'm pretty impressed how you manage to make the levels 3D. I always thought it would be impossible to turn this classic game in the third dimension...but here it is! Amazing!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you feel that I am doing the levels justice.
Flappz wrote:Thanks Man thats all I was Asking!!!
Keep up the sweet work!
Thanks Flappz!
Deltamatic wrote:Lava, this is looking fantastic. I can't wait to see how the other levels will turn out in 3D.
Thank you! I'm glad you like em!

Speaking of other levels, here is a new one. It is based off of Level 4, with the cluster of lollipops and where you get the joystick. This is a preview of the front area, with the steps.

Image
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DaVince
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Post by DaVince »

AWESOME structure. Kinda harsh on the eyes.
Wow look at me I'm lurking
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Nospike
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Post by Nospike »

Wow, that's a nice work. That will be... some sort of a confusing level?
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Grimson
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Post by Grimson »

"Wow" indeed. That building is amazing.

I assume those triangles of different shades of cyan on the blocks were there to illustrate the shape of the block. Instead of being a normal cube, the point in which all the triangles are connected is the top of a pyramid like protrusion on the side of each block. I wonder if you would remove the current texture, give the blocks one tone of cyan, and instead reshape them so they show this pyramid-like side? That's always how I thought the blocks in Keen 1 were.
"All those thousands upon thousands of junk foods made for me on the various planets I explored make me wonder how I'm still alive."
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RoboBlue
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Post by RoboBlue »

This game is coming along nicely.
It's great to finally have a true 3D fangame. :)
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Lava89
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Post by Lava89 »

DaVince wrote:AWESOME structure. Kinda harsh on the eyes.
Many thanks! In the picture below I tried to remedy that with more marble and tile textures.
Nospike wrote:Wow, that's a nice work. That will be... some sort of a confusing level?
Thanks a ton!

Hmm, in what way is it confusing? There might be a mistake on my part that needs to be fixed.
RoboBlue wrote:This game is coming along nicely.
It's great to finally have a true 3D fangame. :)
Thank you RoboBlue!
Grimson wrote:"Wow" indeed. That building is amazing.

I assume those triangles of different shades of cyan on the blocks were there to illustrate the shape of the block. Instead of being a normal cube, the point in which all the triangles are connected is the top of a pyramid like protrusion on the side of each block. I wonder if you would remove the current texture, give the blocks one tone of cyan, and instead reshape them so they show this pyramid-like side? That's always how I thought the blocks in Keen 1 were.
Thank you so much!

About the blocks, their shape is best represented with the textures, a technique used since 3D games started using textures. In order for me to redo the level with actual points I would have to first sub-divide the level into a grid which would already slow down performance and then I'd have to add at least 3 more polygons \ faces to each of those blocks in the grid.

Don't get me wrong, it is a good idea and I'm sure if a much more graphically advanced Keen game was made it would be cool to see those blocks actually come to life. But doing so with this game would not only significantly compromise graphics loading, but also the style I am aiming for.

@Everyone


Here is an update on that level. I tried to make the graphics less "eye-sore friendly", haha.

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VikingBoyBilly
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Post by VikingBoyBilly »

Not that we're not grateful for the recognition of our praises, but the quotes + the screenshots are making your posts huge :eek
and maybe u wanna keep some of these maps secret until you release it? The first 4 or 5 aren't too spoilerific for now...
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Post by Ceilick »

This is looking fantastic :eek, awesome work lava. I can only reiterate what everyone else is saying; it looks like you're really capitalizing on the level design without sacrificing the 'feel' of the original 2d levels. Seems it'll be easy to recognize the old levels in your new ones, which I really look forward to when you finish.

On floating platforms: it may just be me, but it only looks 'unnatural' when the red blocks are floating since I assume the red ones are rock/martian dirt. The purple and blue ones, because they aren't of the same natural quality, look fine floating.

That said, the exit in level 1 looks really bizarre to me without any support. I think it should either be a part of an 'upper plateau' of some kind, or just be supported by a pillar. That'll take away the distinct comparison to the way it is in the original keen 1 though, so you may want to leave it as is.

On the cyan structure...thats a lot of cyan. I worry about how disorienting it'll be when inside of that. Keen 1 had the advantage of the grey backdrop, but I don't really see that is useful here. Maybe more glass windows like those you mentioned before.

In any case, awesome work, your dedication to this project is inspiring to say the least :)
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Lava89
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Post by Lava89 »

@VikingBoyBilly: Haha, ok, I'll try to address people's postslike I am doing now with you. There will be exceptions though. And for the pictures, I think I'll just post thumbnails that link to larger images.

And yes, I am keeping some maps secret. Which is why this last one was only a preview. In the last 2 screens, there are platforms that are clearly hidden behind the pillars (BTW isn't "clearly hidden" an oxymoron?). I also positioned the camera so it didn't show the top of the building and the walls within.

At this point I am showing some levels to get feedback on them. So I am mostly showing what I think could use outside opinions, and already I've gotten great feedback from many people here.

@Cellick: Thank you so much for the compliments!

I find your take on the "red dirt" platforms interesting and it actually makes sense. I might take it into consideration as to what will float by itself and what will be supported. I mostly look to see if it can lean on other platforms or have supports stretch from the walls. If the platforms are too far from any possible supports I look to see if vertical pillars will clutter up the path down below. If it will, I'll now look to see if the platforms are red or a non-red color to know if I should give it support.

As for the exit platform, I might give it some kind of frame with pillars built around it. So it won't look awkward, like it would if it had just a straight pillar underneath it.

About the cyan building. That's not a bad idea about using more windows. And I think you made a good point about the gray background of the old games...maybe I could make a plain gray texture to offset the strong colors?

Thanks for the feedback!
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Grimson
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Post by Grimson »

The building looks much better now. I didn't realize how much adding new polygons would reduce the performance, so keep with the texture.
¨Hmm, in what way is it confusing? There might be a mistake on my part that needs to be fixed.
I think what Nospike was trying to say is that it's hard to navigate inside when there's nothing but cyan everywhere. It looks just fine to me, though, but like Ceilick suggested, adding more glass windows might be good too.
"All those thousands upon thousands of junk foods made for me on the various planets I explored make me wonder how I'm still alive."
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Nospike
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Post by Nospike »

That's it, Grimson. And be careful to make these structures big enough, Lava. In some games, they are too small, so the camera goes through the wall on the other side and you see only the wall but nothing on the other side, where is the character. Or is this fixed?
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DHeadshot
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Post by DHeadshot »

I just played the latest demo for the first time. Very good, though still quite glitchy (though that may just be machine-specific - the thing said intended for Vista and since I prefer reliable OSes I use XP) e.g. the help file that, once entered, you can never leave (I don't know if this is documented or not). However, I would like to note the dificulty curve, which isn't so much a curve as a step signal - assuming you start with the pogo level. The trouble with small cylindrical platforms in 3d is they're very hard to jump onto and since when you miss you fall to your death... Also, the Yorps just don't want to go unconsious. I've managed it twice - both by accident. Then of course there's the inaccuracy of shooting, but that might just be me being unfamiliar with the controls.

I presume issues like these will be fixed in the actual game. Outside of them, it's a brilliant piece of work. Well done.
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RoboBlue
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Post by RoboBlue »

Perhaps there could be an auto-targeting option for people less experienced in 3D platforming/shooting? I mean that for both the gun (automatically hits if you shoot in the general area) and the pogo stick (it could sort of magnetically pull you towards a platform if you're just a little bit off). This should be completely optional though.
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Keenfan
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Post by Keenfan »

That's a great idea, RoboBlue!
It would help getting into the new environement quickly and make some sort of "Easy Mode". :)
I hope that's doable with the engine Lava is using...
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QU3TZ4LC04TL
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Post by QU3TZ4LC04TL »

This is really neat! I miss working with 3D even though I wasn't that good at it. I'll have to check out your demo I read about somewhere.. Coincidentally I'm currently working on the same level for my fan game lol. Keep up the good progress.
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