The Keys of Krodacia: Revision Discussion

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Pokota
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Post by Pokota » Fri Jun 03, 2011 15:24

Graphical and musical overhaul so that it better fits with DitD and BotB, and the moving of the Green Gem Brombo in Mushroom Forest; those plus some other cosmetic fixes are all I really see Ceilick doing to the mod.
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Gridlock
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Post by Gridlock » Fri Jun 03, 2011 16:40

Although I see why a lot of people don't think it needs many changes, I think the game is too similar to Keen 4. Graphics and enemies both greatly resemble the original.

Music wise, I don't necessarily think the current music is terrible. The worldmap song and key collected song are great the way they are. With better instrumentation and a longer duration, songs like Too Quiet could still be great. I really love the ambient atmosphere they add to the game. Keen-Rushin is one of my favorites, and if it gets made a little longer it should still be in a few levels. Into the Inferno isn't a bad song, but the short duration and loud instruments make it incredibly annoying very quickly. My suggestion to Ceilick was to make it more of a drawn-out house security sounding song.

I will agree, some of the story pictures could use some work, especially the scrolling story picture. But since I'm terrible at drawing them, I won't complain any more. :o

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Keeper
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Post by Keeper » Sun Jun 05, 2011 16:58

KoK is pretty good the way it is, at least for me.

The only thing I would suggest changing is the Manor/Mansion/Complex/House/etc. levels - they all look pretty much the same - both outside and inside.

In terms of the world map, I guess the Manor and the Mansion can have a somewhat "older" appearance (one of them can even look like a haunted house, perhaps?), whereas the Complex and Fun house can have a more modern look. The Monk house should have something unusual about its appearance, though I'm not sure what exactly. Odd colors? A Monk statue?

As for the inside - these levels need something to distinguish them from one another. I am not very familiar with Keen modding, so I can't give a concrete suggestion, but I guess some unique object/decoration can do the trick. The selection of enemies appearing in the levels can also add a sense of "uniqueness" (e.g. choose a dominating creature for each level).

Also, instead of changing the title pic, it would be easier to just add more Monks in the game. I kind of like these guys :crazy

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Post by Wayniac » Fri Jun 10, 2011 0:44

Ceilick wrote:I don't plan on getting rid of any current levels or changing how any of them are beaten unless a compelling argument is made for something being very unkeenish.
In the six other Keen games (not including Keen Dreams), the standard galactic alphabet can be found twice. One was in the secret level at the end of Keen 3 which is the end of the trilogy. The other was secretly found inside the already secret level in Keen 6. Taking this fact into consideration, I would like to make an argument that posting the alphabet in groupings all over the walls of very nonsecret levels within any of the Keens seems unkeenish (the temples in Keen 7, for example).

Another suggestion about how to get into the lake - instead of using a swim coin or pulling that wetsuit out of nowhere, you could consider adding a drysuit perhaps. Then you could make a message pop up when you try to enter the lake that says something like, "Brrr... this water is far too cold to swim in with just my standard wetsuit." Now you don't have to put any kind of gate or anything there. Also, the drysuit would be different enough to be a newly named item (like the difference between drops and vivas), yet people will still have that feeling of nostalgia from the wetsuit in Keen 4 as they try to find an "upgraded" version of the item. Finally, instead of having "?????" for the item, you could just start Keen with the wetsuit in the menu that he will never use, but when you find the drysuit, it'll replace "wetsuit" within the menu. I'm mostly just not a huge fan of the swim coin I suppose.

With that said, being new to this forum, I would like to end on an positive note by telling you how much I appreciate the work you've put into the new games. The work and ideas you've put into them are absolutely brilliant and I'm enjoying every minute of them. Thanks!
"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" -John Wooden

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Keeper
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Post by Keeper » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:32

Wayniac wrote:With that said, being new to this forum, I would like to end on an positive note by telling you how much I appreciate the work you've put into the new games. The work and ideas you've put into them are absolutely brilliant and I'm enjoying every minute of them. Thanks!
Welcome, welcome! Enjoy the forum :p

What you say is true - the full SGA should appear somewhere in the TUIT trilogy. I guess Episode 9 is the best candidate (it is the final one, and a new version is in the works anyway).
Last edited by Keeper on Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:37, edited 1 time in total.

Ceilick
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Post by Ceilick » Fri Jun 10, 2011 19:25

@Wayniac: I'll be removing the alphabet as a standard background and using it only once in an isolated area.

Interesting suggestion for the wetsuit, but I'd prefer Keen has to accomplish some task that doesn't directly involve the wetsuit or swimming itself.

@Keeper: All wordmap building designs are probably going to be improved and I intend on creating a new platform set and backgrounds for at least two of them.

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Duplex
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Post by Duplex » Fri Jun 10, 2011 20:11

I had a similar idea with the wetsuit involving lava. Keen would need to get the lava suit in order to swim in Krodacia's lava lake. But the dry suit idea is good too.

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Keeper
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Post by Keeper » Fri Jun 10, 2011 20:45

Preston wrote:I had a similar idea with the wetsuit involving lava. Keen would need to get the lava suit in order to swim in Krodacia's lava lake. But the dry suit idea is good too.
A lava lake would be cool... but it won't fit very well with the overall visual style of the planet Krodacia. It is dominated by colder colors (blue, green, violet, brown).

A slime lake would be better, but there already is one such level.

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Post by Wayniac » Fri Jun 10, 2011 21:55

Ceilick wrote:Interesting suggestion for the wetsuit, but I'd prefer Keen has to accomplish some task that doesn't directly involve the wetsuit or swimming itself.
What about a giant beached fish of some kind? Maybe he's hungry and you need to find him a snack (but that's too similar to Keen 6 perhaps). Maybe a device that lets you move him? Or something that makes the water rise so he can swim away. Or perhaps he refuses to move until you find some item that was taken from him. Maybe MM kidnapped his baby fish son or something and has it in a jar somewhere and he won't go back into the water without him.

Or what if there was no water to being with, but instead was a big empty pit that you can't cross and you need to unblock a waterfall or pull a plug or something. Naw... scratch that, now I'm just spewing ideas.

And then you could also stick with the toll booth I suppose. If you wanted to change it, you could go with something like a building with an electronic gate that can't be opened until the generator is turned on or something. Keen could say something like, "Hmmm, it seems to need power to operate. If only there were some way I could power this up..."
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Duplex
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Post by Duplex » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:13

I like the idea of the giant beached fish and his/her kidnapped son. It adds a little more conflict to the game.

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Post by GARGapplesauce » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:05

Preston wrote:I like the idea of the giant beached fish and his/her kidnapped son. It adds a little more conflict to the game.
Yaaay, conflict!!!

Seriously, though, as cool as this sounds, I personally had no issues with the swim coin, and i feel like this deviates a bit too much from the original game... it changes the air of it a bit...

Regardless, its just my personal opinion...
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Deltamatic
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Post by Deltamatic » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:29

I thought the toll booth was fine while playing the game, but there's a bit of fridge logic involved. Keen was blasting his way through all those other heavily defended levels--why didn't he just stun the toll booth guy and pogo over the roadblock?

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Pokota
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Post by Pokota » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:32

Infinitely high automated roadblock.
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Keeper
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Post by Keeper » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:33

Here is an idea that came to my mind yesterday - the entire story of KoK is about finding the keys for a certain gate. You can actually see that gate in the intro screen (the one with the text crawl) and it looks really cool.

Could it be possible for the gate with seven keyholes to be visible on the world map? It may be seen as a part of a large building somewhere near the BWB Megarocket (thus we will know what a Universal Toaster Cannon actually looks like). An example for a suitable location is to the northeast of the megarocket (currently, there is a tiny clearing in the forest with a rock and a plant in it). The cannon can be huge - it can easily strentch all the way up to the larger clearing where the "Complex" is located. (reference)

Of course, this is just a cosmetic change. It won't affect gameplay in any way.


Deltamatic wrote:I thought the toll booth was fine while playing the game, but there's a bit of fridge logic involved. Keen was blasting his way through all those other heavily defended levels--why didn't he just stun the toll booth guy and pogo over the roadblock?
Krodacians have mastered magic, right? It's a magic roadblock, impervious to neural stunners, pogo sticks, or genius 8-year-old kids :p

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Eros
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Post by Eros » Mon Jun 13, 2011 16:16

wall of immoblized krodacians.
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