Commander Keen Rebuilt

Kazuhiro · Post by **Kazuhiro** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 13:19

Posted this keenmodding.org and they informed me posting this here would be better.

Well recently I began programming a commander keen game for windows XP. My goal is to make an exact duplicate of the 4th 5th and 6th episodes of commander keen in terms of graphics and gameplay. And then add new enemies, goodies, and artwork to the game. And then finnaly a full featured level/world editor so everyone can easily create their own worlds/levels with a very easy GUI editor. Currently I've got a perfect copy of the commander keen's overworld map working. And am beggining to create the in-level gameplay system. Fortunitly I'm finding this to be much easier than previous games I've programmed due to the simple game mechanics for commander keen.

So since I'm making such good progress I'd like to ask if anyone has any ideas for new enemies, goodies, and level designs. I'd appreciate it even more if you have artwork for them as I'm afraid art is FAR from my specilty.

Short term goals: Finish the in-level gameplay mechanics, Make a small world for the game, Come up with a good name for the engine.

Long term goals: Create a full length game world for the engine, create full featured and simple level/world editor, add new content.

I have a screenshot of it, but it doesn't really show anything noteworthy as the game (short of the worldmap and levels) is an identical copy of commander keen 4, 5 and 6

Expect a simple release with a small worldmap and a level or two by the end of next week. (If everything goes well.)

ckguy · Post by **ckguy** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 13:36

This sounds cool! There have been several 'remakes' of various Commander Keen episodes, and the main place they all have fallen short is - in my opinion - the physics. It sounds like you're pretty happy with the way this aspect is going, so I'm hopeful.

I'm a little bit confused about the overall plan - what graphics are you looking for from people? All of Keen 4-6 graphics have been importable and exportable since 2004. (rereads the post) Oh I see, you're talking about adding new graphics. I'm still a little confused as to what will officially be part of the engine - original graphics? added graphics? levels? none of these? (Wishful thinking ahead: It would be amazing if enemy behaviors were not built into the engine, but instead implemented in some sort of scripting language, or maybe in like separate compilable .dll's or something.)

Anyway, even the short term goals sound great, and I'm really looking forward to this. Good luck!

(Edit, after reading post at K:M) This sounds drool-worthy! I'm looking forward to this more than any other in-progress Keen project! (Sorry XkyKeen4, sorry CK:MB, sorry ... um ... sorry my own level editors. Sorry Keen64. Sorry DoomKeen. Sorry EModKeen. Sorry Vox. Sorry ... I'm really reaching now. Sorry TUIT.) Seriously though, this sounds awesome! I really am looking forward to that first release next week!

Post by **KeenRush** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 15:44

Yes, this sounds like an interesting project, good luck with it. However, I can't be helping with any additional graphics or levels, I have more than enough work with my own work. But it'll be impressive to see if you can make it identical to Keen 4-6.

Galaxieretter · Post by **Galaxieretter** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 19:21

Physics is probably the hardest part that you will have to do. I suggest figuring out the fall rate and whatnot. Even a split second delay on say, pogo-ing is detectable. Make sure you get all that correct before you add any new graphics or whatnot.

And besides, I really don't think you should put any new enemies or graphics in the game. I would be more interested to see a raw translation from Dos to XP.

One last thing, do you think you would be able to have your program read and use the original game files? That would be pretty sweet.

Kazuhiro · Post by **Kazuhiro** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:09

CK Guy: The game we be a complete duplicate "in every way" to keen 4, 5 and 6. The only thing that will be different are the levels and the overworld map. (I don't see any sense in remaking them identically when you've already played them over and over in the dos version.) So those will be new. (Although use the same artwork and gameplay.) As for enemy behaviors... sorry but I do intend to build them into the engine. "However" in the future I'll add a system for creating your own enemies from external files. Untill then I'll just keep adding them to the engine itself.

Keenrush: Thank you. And even if you did give me all new artwork right now it will still be a while untill I could add it. And remember its indentical except for the overworld/levels. (Although if everyone REALLY wants it... I could remake that as well in the future.)

Galaxieretter: Indeed it is. I now have a working in-level system (a basic one) but will take a few days to perfect. I find having commander keen and my engine running side by side makes for a beautiful comparison. As for the new enemies... thats a future plan. However like I've said I "could" remake the episodes as they were. But I'd rather make new ones so you have something different to play. In the future you'll have complete freedom to choose what goes into your levels.

One last thing, do you think you would be able to have your program read and use the original game files? That would be pretty sweet.

Hmm... I believe that would only complicate things. Besides my plan is to add new content not possible with the old formats. True color, increased sizes for sprites, more advanced scripting for enemies, etc.

ckguy · Post by **ckguy** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 17:37

Kazuhiro wrote:As for enemy behaviors... sorry but I do intend to build them into the engine. "However" in the future I'll add a system for creating your own enemies from external files. Untill then I'll just keep adding them to the engine itself.

Heh, this was a long shot on my part - excellent to hear that it's on your eventual to-do list.

Kazuhiro wrote:True color, increased sizes for sprites, more advanced scripting for enemies, etc.

I'm a little worried about this and keeping with the Keenishness of the originals. "The Mystery of Isis II" (probably the best engine in a fan-made Keen game) had re-done 256-color sprites and tiles, and while it looked good, it lost some of its Keenishness. I'm cool with more intelligent enemies, but I was really hoping to have it *look* like the Keen I know and love.

In any case, this still looks like an amazing project. Good luck!

Kazuhiro · Post by **Kazuhiro** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:42

I'm a little worried about this and keeping with the Keenishness of the originals. "The Mystery of Isis II" (probably the best engine in a fan-made Keen game) had re-done 256-color sprites and tiles, and while it looked good, it lost some of its Keenishness. I'm cool with more intelligent enemies, but I was really hoping to have it *look* like the Keen I know and love.

In any case, this still looks like an amazing project. Good luck!

Whoa hold on. What I meant was that it will "support" true color sprites, and art. All of the content "I" add will look identical to the old commander keen with the same 16bit color scheme. I'm including true color support for people who wish to add their own artwork into their own levels, worlds when I finish the editor. Trust me. I intend to stay true to the commander keen we have all known. I just want others to have creative options as well.[/quote]

ckguy · Post by **ckguy** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:23

Okay, okay, good. You had me worried there.

Sorry about making assumptions.

LJH · Post by **LJH** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 20:32

CK Guy wrote:
Kazuhiro wrote:As for enemy behaviors... sorry but I do intend to build them into the engine. "However" in the future I'll add a system for creating your own enemies from external files. Untill then I'll just keep adding them to the engine itself.
Heh, this was a long shot on my part - excellent to hear that it's on your eventual to-do list.

Kazuhiro wrote:True color, increased sizes for sprites, more advanced scripting for enemies, etc.
I'm a little worried about this and keeping with the Keenishness of the originals. "The Mystery of Isis II" (probably the best engine in a fan-made Keen game) had re-done 256-color sprites and tiles, and while it looked good, it lost some of its Keenishness. I'm cool with more intelligent enemies, but I was really hoping to have it *look* like the Keen I know and love.

In any case, this still looks like an amazing project. Good luck!

Is the "probably the best engine" really relebant when talking about graphics?

Kazuhiro · Post by **Kazuhiro** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:39

Is the "probably the best engine" really relebant when talking about graphics?

Well seeing as the graphics are actually built into the engine itself. (Currently anyway) I guess it is "relevent" (Sorry couldn't help it... call me a grammer nazi) The engine compacts everything into a single large .exe file. And decompresses them (encrypted) to a temp folder while in use.

Edit: After re-reading your post I wonder if you were trying to say is the statement "the best engine" for commander keen's (outdated) graphics really relevent? If so... then yes, your correct. Anything could handle those these days. Thats why I am using this engine to support larger and more advanced graphics should someone want to add them.

LJH · Post by **LJH** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:48

No, I'm saying was there any point in mentioning that it had the best ENGINE, while discussing graphics.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think of the "engine" as being like, the movement system and stuff like that. Like, how the game actually works.

DaVince · Post by **DaVince** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 13:40

Another shot at compiling the old Keens into a new engine? Awesome, I wish you good luck!

Kazuhiro · Post by **Kazuhiro** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 15:15

LJH wrote:No, I'm saying was there any point in mentioning that it had the best ENGINE, while discussing graphics.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think of the "engine" as being like, the movement system and stuff like that. Like, how the game actually works.

Ah, ok. I see what your trying to say now. Actually the engine also encompases the data and programming that utilizes the graphics. For example how the game handles animations, sprite changes, and what kinds of colors are supported. As for saying its the "best" engine... I don't recall saying that. However it will be leaps and bounds better than the old dos one was in terms of what can be done. (However it will consume consideribly more CPU power too.) You may also still believe it will be using only the old graphics. Its true that anything "I" add will look exactly like it was in the old dos Commander Keen. But modders will be able to use any color they wish when adding sprites and art.

LJH · Post by **LJH** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 15:16

No, CK Guy mentioned Isis as being one of the best engines yet having unkeenish graphics.

ckguy · Post by **ckguy** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 0:25

Look at what I started!

Yeah, looking back on it, it doesn't make 100% sense for me to say that Isis has the best engine however it doesn't have completely Keenish graphics. I kinda regret filling up a thread with arguments about what I said, but on the other hand, I didn't really have anything to do with it ... I think that parenthetical remark was more for Kazuhiro's benefit so he could check out Isis if he wanted ... I don't even know. It's not that important. Please, drop it.