Keen after TUIT: what now?

Paramultart · Post by **Paramultart** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 17:25

First of all, Shmaynoria belongs on the chart. It would fit somewhere alongside Keen Dreams.

Second of all, Keen GBC should be recreated as a fan-game, not a mod. There's no way to implement all the enemy behaviors and cut-scenes otherwise.

I think it's a great idea, and then it could modified to be more "Keenish" and less hateable.

KeenEmpire · Post by **KeenEmpire** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 18:25

Preston wrote:Battle of the Brains already serves as a parallel to Keen GBC anyway, what with all the references.

I'm kinda curious: how similar are they?

Toothpick · Post by **Toothpick** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 18:27

KeenEmpire wrote:
Preston wrote:Battle of the Brains already serves as a parallel to Keen GBC anyway, what with all the references.
I'm kinda curious: how similar are they?

I already mentioned the similarities a couple pages back. See the quote below.

Preston wrote:Not to mention Battle of the Brains borrows some elements from Keen GBC. The HUB, Cybloog, the Shikadi Probes and the inclusion of a Shikadi world come to mind. Both games also have Mortimer himself appear as opposed to being just an implied character.

mortimer · Post by **mortimer** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:33

Grimson · Post by **Grimson** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 13:27

They are intelligent creatures, thus the stunner blacks out their neural activity.

Post by **tulip** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 13:32

The fact that silcar isn't mentioned anywhere in the chart proves what I always suspected: Nobody cares about it: The critics liked them as far as I know, but the public ignores them.

Anyway, nice chart Dheadshot.

GARGapplesauce · Post by **GARGapplesauce** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 16:08

Paramultart wrote:First of all, Shmaynoria belongs on the chart. It would fit somewhere alongside Keen Dreams.

Second of all, Keen GBC should be recreated as a fan-game, not a mod. There's no way to implement all the enemy behaviors and cut-scenes otherwise.

I think it's a great idea, and then it could modified to be more "Keenish" and less hateable.

This. Maybe the ROCK source engine for GameMaker could be used. If anyone knows where that is...

IT's an almost perfect copy of the engine for all intents and purposes.
(ROCK=Recreation of Commander Keen)

Deltamatic · Post by **Deltamatic** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 19:58

mortimer wrote:I just had a thought about the Humans: If they're made of cells, surely the bio injector would make them stronger rather than kill them?

Syllypryde · Post by **Syllypryde** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 0:02

I think this idea of adding all the mods on a canonical timeline is getting out of control. I am now beginning to understand the idea of only allowing the original Keen games as the only acceptable canon for the Keen series. Me personally, the only mods I felt should be considered canon were Ceilick's unofficial TUIT and ONLY because "The Universe is Toast" is an established series in Commander Keen that unfortunately was never made, never will be made, thus I felt something had to be there. All other mod series were noncanonical, including Ceilick's other series.

But then I got to thinking, it does not really seem fair to alienate other mods just because they did not use TUIT as their themes. The other two that did (there were only three attempts at creating TUIT correct?), the TUIT fangames by Thenewmoonsidianx (which are completely horrible) and Xkylar's TUIT should not be alienated just because most Keeners believe Ceilick's TUIT is superior. Should other mods which used the Keen engine but had nothing to do with Keen also be alienated just because they fit nowhere in the original timeline?

I cannot see including every single mod as part of the Keen canon, and creating three or more alternate universes is nothing more than a convoluted excuse to squeeze mods into the original timeline. If we want to add mods into the canon, we need to decide which mods logicially fit into the original timeline. If we want to create an alternate universe, create only one and decide which mods will logically fit there as well. All other mods would be considered noncanonical.

Either we need to do this or consider all mods (including Ceilick's unofficial TUIT) as noncanonical. In order not to alienate many modders, to many it may seem fair to include all mods as canon, but not only is that one big hassle, but it turns the otherwise simple story of an 8-year-old who becomes the defender of the universe into a complex, unmitigated disaster. Let's just keep things simple and just keep all the mods out.

Patrick

DHeadshot · Post by **DHeadshot** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 0:57

Paramultart wrote:First of all, Shmaynoria belongs on the chart. It would fit somewhere alongside Keen Dreams.

I did ask earlier - be exact and I'll add it.

tulip wrote:The fact that silcar isn't mentioned anywhere in the chart proves what I always suspected: Nobody cares about it: The critics liked them as far as I know, but the public ignores them.

Actually I was working in alphabetical order - I hadn't got to S yet...

tulip wrote:Anyway, nice chart Dheadshot.

Thanks.

Toothpick · Post by **Toothpick** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 0:58

Syllypryde wrote:I cannot see including every single mod as part of the Keen canon, and creating three or more alternate universes is nothing more than a convoluted excuse to squeeze mods into the original timeline. If we want to add mods into the canon, we need to decide which mods logicially fit into the original timeline. If we want to create an alternate universe, create only one and decide which mods will logically fit there as well. All other mods would be considered noncanonical.

This. Not to undermine the worth of these mods, but we should discard any prequel, interquel (except maybe Keen Dreams), midquel, parallel sequel or sidequel (that means you, Retrosis) from the original timeline. I originally made that chart specifically to pertain to the original timeline. That way, no one would feel uncomfortable considering Ceilick's TUIT as an alternate canon to Tom Hall's TUIT.

I also made that chart so that people could make new mods that continue from Ceilick's TUIT without infringing upon his canon. That means more Lt. Barker and maybe the Loquax Keen from Dead in the Desert.

Deltamatic · Post by **Deltamatic** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:58

I'd thought of the timeline images as just showing when the mods were set, not claiming that they were canon.

TerminILL · Post by **TerminILL** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:13

It's still ridiculous, really. Most mods make it pretty clear when they're set.

Post by **Levellass** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 23:11

I think this is a neat project either way.

I just had a thought about the Shikadi: If they're made of energy, surely the neural stunner would make them stronger rather than kill them?

You're made of meat. Throwing dogs at you must make you stronger.

Paramultart · Post by **Paramultart** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 23:28

Levellass wrote: You're made of meat. Throwing dogs at you must make you stronger.

Sig'd.