A different type of Commander Keen in Doom Mod

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Kraigose
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A different type of Commander Keen in Doom Mod

Post by Kraigose »

Hello, fellow Keenest.

I'm very new, and I don't even know if this is the proper place to put this. Please relocate this thread if it needs moving.

I'm a different modding guy. I like to tinker with small ZDoom projects as of late, an see which one is the best to continue on. Lately I've wanted something different - I want to make a Keen project of sorts, but I am no good with making tiles or 2d level design.

I notice some ZDoom-oriented Keen projects don't seem to go far. And I think that's because of one major issue - people try to turn Doom into a platformer engine. I have to respectfully disagree with the notion Doom can be platforming-only.

Doom is, and should stay, a first person engine. So I decided to tinker with various ideas. This is the result of only 3-4 days work.

I have two - one which I have a demo working and on youtube here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOSlqCWzjjE

This is a video which demonstrates Doom-y enemies based on CK4, CK5 and CK6 enemies (and one based loosely on Celick's CK9 BioGarg). But due to ZDoom being able to replace enemies and do much more than just graphical overhauls, I coded the enemies to be much different.

While I know a good chunk of the enemies are based on the Blooglett enemy, I wanted to show off/tinker with ZDoom's color remapping and inehritance, something I've never used before in a ZDoom mod myself.

However, I also had another idea for a Keen-oriented ZDoom/Skulltag mod which might work better. Keen Deathmatch. However I saw NetKeen and was impressed, to the point I didn't want to take away from that project, which is very impressive :)

So I ask you, my fellow Keenest... what would you rather see? I want to contribute to this community because I've lurked for so long.

Thanks in advance.
I wonder how Commander Keen eats all that food and only gains points, not calories.

... I'll grab my coat.

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Stealthy71088
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Post by Stealthy71088 »

Welcome to the community!

I watched your video, very cool! :) The Garg looked really nasty!

I don't know much about ZDoom, and I have no idea what game Skulltag is for, (probably for doom) but ultimately, I would just make whatever you enjoy the most. It sounds like you know what you're doing. I will warn you though, if you make the deathmatch, you might have trouble just getting lots of people to play- our board is notorious for having people show up pretty haphazardly.

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Post by Gridlock »

This is pretty impressive. Normally I wouldn't care for Doom too much, but I'd play something like this. I'd prefer to see a single person game rather than something that tries to be multiplayer like Netkeen.

The enemies are really cool here. I know nothing about Doom so there isn't a whole lot of stuff I can say technically. I think some of the sprites could use a little work, especially the shikadi and licks. I realize that transpanency does make the shikadi difficult to draw, though.

My advice- Don't try to make an enormous game out of this yet. I'm getting tired of people with really cool projects overestimate what they can do and have the project fail as a result. Try to make a small game with a couple levels as a starter before you aim to create something huge.

The Keen 5 setting in the room with the robo red is really awesome (as well as the robo red itself) I'd love to see some Keen 5 themed levels.

That video is making me dizzy right now, but I'll post some more suggestions some other time.
Last edited by Gridlock on Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:56, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Kraigose »

Stealthy71088 wrote:Welcome to the community!

I watched your video, very cool! :) The Garg looked really nasty!

I don't know much about ZDoom, and I have no idea what game Skulltag is for, (probably for doom) but ultimately, I would just make whatever you enjoy the most. It sounds like you know what you're doing. I will warn you though, if you make the deathmatch, you might have trouble just getting lots of people to play- our board is notorious for having people show up pretty haphazardly.
Thanks for the reply and kind words!

Ah, ZDoom is a source port of the ol' DOOM from 1993. Skulltag is a descendant of ZDoom which is aimed more for multiplayer, and I use it if and when multiplayer ideas come to mind.

My friend and I were talking, I think a single player mod of sorts could be better to start.
Gridlock wrote:This is pretty impressive. Normally I wouldn't care for Doom too much, but I'd play something like this. I'd prefer to see a single person game rather than something that tries to be multiplayer like Netkeen.

The enemies are really cool here. I know nothing about Doom so there isn't a whole lot of stuff I can say technically. I think some of the sprites could use a little work, especially the shikadi and licks. I realize that transpanency does make the shikadi difficult to draw, though.

My advice- Don't try to make an enormous game out of this yet. I'm getting tired of people with really cool projects overestimate what they can do and have the project fail as a result. Try to make a small game with a couple levels as a starter before you aim to create something huge.

The Keen 5 setting in the room with the robo red is really awesome (as well as the robo red itself) I'd love to see some Keen 5 themed levels.
Thank you for the reply as well.

I will start out small, like I am now, as making big projects to start has always been my weakest point (not because I'm lazy, but I'm a masters student looking for work, modding isn't 100% my priority). I'll take your advice and get a more decent prototype to show people. I plan on making something out of this though.

Admittedly the Shikadi(s) are in need of an overhaul but I'm not sure how to fix them. Maybe I might try a hand at fixing them later tonight or tomorrow. I use Flash for graphics, so designing the front sprites will be tough for the Shikadi.

As for the Lick, I think the Lick needs fixed in general because he is jumping a bit too high to begin with. I will tinker with him too.

Again, thank you all for the replies and constructive feedback.
I wonder how Commander Keen eats all that food and only gains points, not calories.

... I'll grab my coat.

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Post by MrBlack »

This is actually really cool, great job! Hope it goes well.
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Post by Grimson »

Good work so far. How close to the exploding Garg you have to be in order to get damage? The explosion seems rather small, maybe it should be a bit bigger than the Garg itself if that's only possible.
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Post by kuliwil »

This is neat!

Like Gridlock, I'm not much of a Doom person but this really appeals to me. The enemies are well thought out and I LOVE the way that the licks work! And I'd hate to come across a her of Robo Reds! (I'd rather have HoboRed reply to every comment I make.)

Have you thought about adding a Flower Power weapon like that found in Keen Dreams?
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Post by StupidBunny »

As always, feel free to use any resources from my Keen Doom project which, not surprisingly, was abandoned. I have to say though that I like the way you've done your sprites a lot better, just because I think the black-outline sprites look really bad at a distance in any Doom engine.

This looks really cool! I hope you can keep it up. :)
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Post by Ceilick »

I'm not really a Doom fan, but as others have said, this is neat :) I'm particularly intrigued by the use of Bloogs/Blooglets. If this project develops, I'd personally hope to see it with a story-centric campaign starring the Bloogs (since they seem to be featured prominently).

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Post by Gridlock »

I think it would be cool to see a few Keen 5 themed levels first, maybe as practice for a full game (which could involve the blooglets).

I already see some Keen 5 themed enemies in there, and others could easily be adapted. You could give the sparky similar behavior to the Biogarg, and in fact I think the explode would make more sense on a Sparky.

As for the lick, I think it has 2 problems- like you said, the really high jump height, but also I think the lick image is a little too tall, it needs to look a little flatter and beanbag like.

I can't get a good look at how the shikadi animate, but you could make them look more "electrifying" by adding some lighter colored electricity sparks or bolts that animate on the shikadi body as it moves. Hopefully you understand what I mean. I must admit, I really like the death sequence you have for them.

One other noobish thing I have to ask. How much extra depth can you add to Doom levels? Do they pretty much have to be completely flat, or can you make things more vertical? Is there a way to make your player jump, or do they have to be grounded all the time?

Edit: Nevermind about the jump, I see that it is possible in the video.
Last edited by Gridlock on Sat Jul 16, 2011 21:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by VikingBoyBilly »

If you're in need for an 8-frame rotation of keen sprites, I made a spriteset for commander keen 2.5D. Here's what they look like:
Image

I also made a working pogo player state that could be binded to a key (I made it go by the 2nd fire button back before I found out about keybinds).
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Re: A different type of Commander Keen in Doom Mod

Post by ZidaneA »

Woah! That's one manly Keen you've got there, judging by the voice :p
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Post by RoboBlue »

Wow cool!
For the health icon, you should just show Keen's helmet, and have it get more and more beaten/cracked/shot up as he gets hurt.
Last edited by RoboBlue on Sat Jul 16, 2011 21:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Kraigose »

I wasn't expecting so much positive feedback and constructive criticism. Thanks so much, really :D
Gridlock wrote:One other noobish thing I have to ask. How much extra depth can you add to Doom levels? Do they pretty much have to be completely flat, or can you make things more vertical? Is there a way to make your player jump, or do they have to be grounded all the time?
ZDoom actually had a 3D Floors update recently, where non-sloped 3D floors are now allowed. Sloped 3d floors (think room over room, or platformy-levels) are soon to be implemented.

So in layman's terms, it is possible, and planned, to make not-so-flat Doom levels. Me and a friend are gonna work on levels once I get the enemies worked out.

As for the lick, I kind of fixed it by redrawing the sprites altogether, making it look more like the original Lick from Keen 4. However, I can scale these sprites down (right now, all sprites aside Shikadi Jr scale at 0.67 (roughly 2/3 the original height)

I also made it jump much lower and proper. It still sometimes jumps very high if you shoot it while jumping, which I think is actually a cool effect.

I plan on some Keen 5 levels for practice. I'm still looking for some decent Keen-like texture patches (tiles, if you will) for Flats and Textures.
Celick wrote: I'm not really a Doom fan, but as others have said, this is neat I'm particularly intrigued by the use of Bloogs/Blooglets. If this project develops, I'd personally hope to see it with a story-centric campaign starring the Bloogs (since they seem to be featured prominently).
What an honor! I love your mods for CK4-6! You and your colleagues do wonders!

*clears throat*

Yes, there is a story being plotted and the bloogs play a prominate role. (Which let's say, there's a reason they're equipped more heavily)
StupidBunny wrote:As always, feel free to use any resources from my Keen Doom project which, not surprisingly, was abandoned. I have to say though that I like the way you've done your sprites a lot better, just because I think the black-outline sprites look really bad at a distance in any Doom engine.
Thanks for the offer. Do you have a link? I might use textures if they exist.
Grimson wrote:Good work so far. How close to the exploding Garg you have to be in order to get damage? The explosion seems rather small, maybe it should be a bit bigger than the Garg itself if that's only possible.
Actually the idea is as you are fighting it, once it's gone, you kind of might be pitted against other foes and forget they can sometimes exlode. The explosion is about as big as the explosion you see. It's more of a trap/last resort. The chance of it happening is roughly 40% of the time. I might make is higher on higher difficulties if possible to do so.
kuliwil wrote:Have you thought about adding a Flower Power weapon like that found in Keen Dreams?
I'm not sure. I might consider it as perhaps another weapon. Maybe once I come up with a 7th weapon I'll consider it for an 8th weapon.
VikingBoyBilly wrote:If you're in need for an 8-frame rotation of keen sprites, I made a spriteset for commander keen 2.5D. Here's what they look like:
I will probably use these.
ZidaneA wrote:Woah! That's one manly Keen you've got there, judging by the voice
*laughs*

While keen's gonna be a year older than in the official games/Ceilck's mods, he's not intended to be that old. I just don't know what direction to take with sound, right now I'm using the Keen Adlib sound effects.

Anyhow. thanks for the kind words people, it motivates me to press on. Not many of my mods get attention or proper feedback, so this is an awesome turnaround. I will do my best to complete this project.

---

Before I go, I implemented two new enemies:

Shikadi Spherefuls and Red Volte-faces.

the Red Volte-faces are generated by the new Generation of Spherefuls.

Next I will work on levels to show off my vision!
I wonder how Commander Keen eats all that food and only gains points, not calories.

... I'll grab my coat.

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Post by Gridlock »

Err, Doom uses 16 colors right? I honestly don't know. However, if you want a better way to get graphics, you can easily extract them from the original Keen games. You could take wall textures directly from Keen 5, as well as get the original enemy sprites. Maybe you did this already, but if not it could make things easier. And if you don't know to extract the graphics, we can help.

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