The Unofficial TUIT Revision Betas

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Grimson
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Post by Grimson » Wed Oct 19, 2011 19:52

Eros wrote:
I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Are you talking about after the Keen flips the bridge switch? If so, avoiding what risks?
during the part after the blue gem and 1up, you fall down to an area with several turrets and a few blue bridges so the up-turrets can fire.

however, people can just drop down and avoid the hassle, which is clearly unintended.
I think removing the blue bridges would do. Mort can still get pass that section without them so I see no issue in removing them either.

Oh, I also noticed that in Jotundra mountains, in the space with two spikes above the door that requires a red gem, you can jump to the hidden pass at the corner, go through it and this way skip the trouble of fetching the red crystal. I think this was unintended.
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Ceilick
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Post by Ceilick » Wed Oct 19, 2011 19:55

Ah, good thinking Eros, I'll add some hazards to the openings of those spots in the next update.

I'll take a look for that shortcut as well, Grimson.

Edit: As far as I can tell, it's not possible to skip the red door. Could you take a screenshot of where exactly you're able to get around it?
Last edited by Ceilick on Wed Oct 19, 2011 20:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Eros
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Post by Eros » Wed Oct 19, 2011 20:01

Grimson wrote:
Eros wrote:
I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Are you talking about after the Keen flips the bridge switch? If so, avoiding what risks?
during the part after the blue gem and 1up, you fall down to an area with several turrets and a few blue bridges so the up-turrets can fire.

however, people can just drop down and avoid the hassle, which is clearly unintended.
I think removing the blue bridges would do. Mort can still get pass that section without them so I see no issue in removing them either.
no, if this happened, then the turrets that shoot up are completely useless, halving the challenge
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Duplex
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Post by Duplex » Thu Oct 20, 2011 14:52

Image

This is the platform at the very top of The Crater where you get the yellow gem. I would suggest creating a small trail of items that lead you to safety between these drills.

Image

Also, the Prospectors still block out narrow passages for Keen.

Image

You don't necessarily have to get rid of them nor do you have to change their behavior entirely. What I would try instead is making the Prospectors invulnerable before they dive into the ground. Then, when they dive into the ground, there is no debris that can hurt you, but the Prospectors can now be destroyed when stuck into the ground. It's only when you shoot them does the debris fly at you.

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Post by Syllypryde » Thu Oct 20, 2011 20:05

Pyry wrote:........This is the platform at the very top of The Crater where you get the yellow gem. I would suggest creating a small trail of items that lead you to safety between these drills.
Through practice, it is very simple to figure out where to jump off the ledge and land safely between the drills. I do it all the time every time.
Also, the Prospectors still block out narrow passages for Keen......... You don't necessarily have to get rid of them nor do you have to change their behavior entirely. What I would try instead is making the Prospectors invulnerable before they dive into the ground. Then, when they dive into the ground, there is no debris that can hurt you, but the Prospectors can now be destroyed when stuck into the ground. It's only when you shoot them does the debris fly at you.
The prospector issue has been discussed before, even though that discussion was mostly directed towards The Depleted Tunnels. Again, through practice, you can lead the prospectors to areas where it is safe for them to jump and break in pieces. Knowing where they are and how high they jump, plus practice, will make them a lot less dangerous.

Edit: In your last pic, that prospector can easily be led away from the door, then you make him jump at you in the more open area at the right where you can jump over him will little trouble.
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Ceilick
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Post by Ceilick » Thu Oct 20, 2011 20:13

Originally the area with the pancakes and drills was meant as a 'secret'ish area, but since the level underwent some compacting, it got moved to directly below the yellow gem, which means the player will drop down there like every time. With that in mind, i'm just going to remove the drills.

I don't see the second area as much of an issue, especially when the only thing that Prospector is blocking are points.

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Post by Grimson » Thu Oct 20, 2011 20:18

Ceilick wrote:Originally the area with the pancakes and drills was meant as a 'secret'ish area, but since the level underwent some compacting, it got moved to directly below the yellow gem, which means the player will drop down there like every time. With that in mind, i'm just going to remove the drills.
I thought of it as a nice "jump-if-dare" solution. You couldn't know what was below, so you could go back left, or cross your fingers and...land directly on one of the drills :bloody
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kuliwil
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Post by kuliwil » Thu Oct 20, 2011 20:43

Keeping the drills makes it a skill-tester kinda thing; I think that makes up for the loss of a secret area.
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Syllypryde
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Post by Syllypryde » Thu Oct 20, 2011 20:55

Ceilick wrote:Originally the area with the pancakes and drills was meant as a 'secret'ish area, but since the level underwent some compacting, it got moved to directly below the yellow gem, which means the player will drop down there like every time. With that in mind, i'm just going to remove the drills.
You are free to do what you want, but like I said in my previous post, through practice, it is very simple to figure out how to land safely between the drills. Besides, if you changed everything that someone felt was "too hard" you would end up changing the entire game! I understand that you want to update the game, fix any bugs that were still in the first revision, fix all the memory issues, fix any bugs introduced in the new revision, and edit things that you feel might not be that Keenish. But I do not like the idea of changes being made just make to the game easier, when those of us who have actually played and beaten all three skill levels will tell you that most of the things that people are complaining are "too hard" are VERY possible! But again, it is up to you.
Edit: As far as I can tell, it's not possible to skip the red door. Could you take a screenshot of where exactly you're able to get around it?
I wish I knew how to do screenshots so I can show you, but I will vouge for Grimson that the red gemdoor can be bypassed in Jotundra Mountains. Allow me to explain. Just above the red gemdoor there is a secret passage that drops down to where the red gemdoor is. Above that is a ledge with 4 juice boxes. Above that is another ledge that has 2 spikes and 3 corndogs. Above this is another secret passage that contains 2 stacks of pancakes and the passage leads near the top of a mountain where there are 4 orbs at the ledge. From here you can jump right over the moutain to your right and access the rest of the level, not just getting to the exit, but from where you jump over the mountain, you can climb back down to the exact area the red gemdoor is supposed to block. In addition, in the sloped areas with the Yetis just above the yellow gemdoor, there is a door that leads to a dropdoor and that actually drops Keen in the area that is supposed to be blocked by the red gemdoor.
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Ceilick
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Post by Ceilick » Thu Oct 20, 2011 21:34

Once you know the drills are there, sure, it's not very hard at all. But since A) the player will drop there 90% of the time, and B) the player has no way of knowing the drill placement until they've landed and probably died once. Ideally, a player should never have to die just to figure out how to approach an area. That's why the drills are going.

I misunderstood the mountain problem, but it will be fixed in the next update. I've removed the upper path of that secret so that it can only be accessed from the spike room.

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Duplex
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Post by Duplex » Thu Oct 20, 2011 23:18

Ceilick wrote:I don't see the second area as much of an issue, especially when the only thing that Prospector is blocking are points.
Image

This same Prospector is blocking a switch you need to beat the level. Even if you manage to jump over it to get to the switch, you can't jump back over it for some reason. This could also be fixed by changing the ceiling.

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Post by Ceilick » Thu Oct 20, 2011 23:45

Thanks, I'll alter the ceiling and bump the ramp a tile to the right to create some extra head room.

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No. 1 Machop Fan
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Post by No. 1 Machop Fan » Fri Oct 21, 2011 0:01

Since Keen 9 has the sprite for when he's stunned, why not use a version of that for when Mortimer's stunned?

Also, did you ever fix that grammar error in Keen 7's ending "The doors have closed behind you and their is no escape"?
I love my cute little Machop!

Come on, you know Machop is cute! I mean, how could you not love those endearing eyes? That adorable face? That loving embrace?

Just don't call it cuddly or else it will hurt you.

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Duplex
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Post by Duplex » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:56

Ceilick wrote:Thanks, I'll alter the ceiling and bump the ramp a tile to the right to create some extra head room.
Sounds good. There are three last things for me to point out, but since they could be intentional, feel free to ignore them.

Image

It takes a while to kill the Shikadi Aggrolyte in this area since the platform Keen is standing on is so small. But maybe you're suppose to use the slanted part of the platform to pogo up to the bigger platform above.

At the Warpcore, even though Keen can walk into Mortimer and not get hurt, Keen can still die if he collides with Mortimer while Mortimer is in his gun pointing pose. Is that suppose to happen?

As for the gun room in Defense Tower Surth, I have another suggestion for it that might make it easier but still challenging. Revert the change you made to the middle gun in normal mode, but replace the goplat with that red cylinder platform instead. The guns can shoot through it, but now you can take your time. You could also do something with that Vlorg in hard mode.

Grimson
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Post by Grimson » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:24

As for the gun room in Defense Tower Surth, I have another suggestion for it that might make it easier but still challenging. Revert the change you made to the middle gun in normal mode, but replace the goplat with that red cylinder platform instead. The guns can shoot through it, but now you can take your time. You could also do something with that Vlorg in hard mode.
The Gravitational Dampening Hub in Keen 5 had a very similar gun alley, although with two go-plats. It was challenging, especially on Hard, but not impossible. Because of that I wouldn't remove the goplat.
"All those thousands upon thousands of junk foods made for me on the various planets I explored make me wonder how I'm still alive."

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