[old thread] BomberKEEN

You can discuss anything about fan-made Commander Keen games here.
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DoomJedi
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Post by DoomJedi »

Sounds great, will check later!
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Post by Dr. Kylstein »

I've fixed some bugs, made the menu a little nicer, and added a selectable number of wins to end the game. It just exits to the menu right now, though. Any ideas for a victory screen?
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Post by DoomJedi »

I'll need to think I guess...
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Post by DoomJedi »

How do you envision the Victory screen?
Will it just show the winning character - or Keen in particular?
Will it be small image - or fullscreen victory screen?
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Post by Dr. Kylstein »

DoomJedi wrote:How do you envision the Victory screen?
Will it just show the winning character - or Keen in particular?
Will it be small image - or fullscreen victory screen?
I was thinking of a full screen with number of wins and maybe some other stats for each player.

I think we could also use a victory animation for player sprites at the end of each round.

On the subject of animation: having extra space around all the frames wastes memory and takes longer [for the CPU] to draw, so making all of them 32x32 doesn't seem like a good idea. I could make it so that you can define a uniform frame size per-sprite, with the understanding that you would make it as small as you can without being too restrictive.
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Post by Levellass »

I vote the victory screen say 'You're the bomb!' on it.
What you really need, not what you think you ought to want.
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Post by DoomJedi »

Dr. Kylstein wrote: I was thinking of a full screen with number of wins and maybe some other stats for each player.
What does it mean artwise? Do you just load character sprites?
Can you put a sketch?
I think we could also use a victory animation for player sprites at the end of each round.
For Keen or for each particular character? It seems like alot of work...also will make the game less moddable.
On the subject of animation: having extra space around all the frames wastes memory and takes longer [for the CPU] to draw, so making all of them 32x32 doesn't seem like a good idea. I could make it so that you can define a uniform frame size per-sprite, with the understanding that you would make it as small as you can without being too restrictive.
What animations you talk about?
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Post by Dr. Kylstein »

DoomJedi wrote:
Dr. Kylstein wrote: I was thinking of a full screen with number of wins and maybe some other stats for each player.
What does it mean artwise? Do you just load character sprites?
Can you put a sketch?
I probably would use the character sprites in it, yes. You've been the designer and artist so far, surely you can come up with something? (Although I might be able to take over the "system" graphics if you would prefer to focus on characters and level graphics.)
DoomJedi wrote:
I think we could also use a victory animation for player sprites at the end of each round.
For Keen or for each particular character? It seems like alot of work...also will make the game less moddable.
The idea is to have whichever player survives do a victory dance at the end of the round. I thought you were eager to add more animations? If you don't want to make the animation for all of your proposed characters, maybe we should stick with just four player characters.
DoomJedi wrote:
On the subject of animation: having extra space around all the frames wastes memory and takes longer [for the CPU] to draw, so making all of them 32x32 doesn't seem like a good idea. I could make it so that you can define a uniform frame size per-sprite, with the understanding that you would make it as small as you can without being too restrictive.
What animations you talk about?
Our discussion earlier about more flexible ways to do animations/sprite-sheets:
DoomJedi wrote:Hard to decide. I tend to prefer offsets, as it makes you easier to copy/paste existing frames into new frames and actions - working within a single file. Also constant tileset frame structure makes you easy see what frames you lack for that character and monitor your progress, also the role of each frame - by their placing within the spriteset.
Also cell sctructure makes it easier for you to align sprites.

But I'd prefer that all frames will be within constant 32x32 cell, just like in my latest GM BomberKeen version - and not a random set of frames of different sizes.
This will make easier on the offsets.

The bottom center of such a 32x32 frame would match the bottom center of the battle area cell, and the rest of the 32x32 image (including transparency) will display above/aside of it.

Image

I think it's the best concept.

The sprite mask (for collisions etc.) should stay the same for all characters - independent of their visual size...and probably match the basic cell.
I'm proposing to go with something like that, but with different cell sizes for different characters: Keen might have a 24x24 cell, while a Bobba might have 24x32 cells, a dopefish 32x32, etc. You would be able to define it for each character.


Also, I intend to make more arenas available. Should we go with designed levels (which is currently implemented) or go back to just applying different themes to the same layout(s)? I was expecting you to design the levels if we continue with the first option.

Either way, we could also add themed traps. [Though some might be easier to use with designed levels.]
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Post by DoomJedi »

Dr. Kylstein wrote:I probably would use the character sprites in it, yes
Can't we just load ones directly from the game? Why the extra artwork?
This will make engine more moddable and easier to add new characters.
You can even scale them if needed.
They can be animated for front walking.
(Although I might be able to take over the "system" graphics if you would prefer to focus on characters and level graphics.)
I don't mind you taking over system art. Really. I was never into that anyway.
The idea is to have whichever player survives do a victory dance at the end of the round
Well, just lift their hands left then right as victory? We need something simple (sure for modding-bility)....not whole dance choreography...and what about creatures with no hands?
I thought you were eager to add more animations?
Well, not eager....and I wanted to add more powerups, not animations. Those new powerups need more animations, yes.
But the goal are powerups/new player actions.
If you don't want to make the animation for all of your proposed characters, maybe we should stick with just four player characters.
And the rest only as enemy creatures?
Sad news for Keeners, and those who plan to mod it. I don't think they'll be very happy about this...
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Post by DoomJedi »

Dr. Kylstein wrote: I'm proposing to go with something like that, but with different cell sizes for different characters: Keen might have a 24x24 cell, while a Bobba might have 24x32 cells, a dopefish 32x32, etc. You would be able to define it for each character.
Maan it's take quite some work to re-rearrange the sprites.... :dead
Also, I intend to make more arenas available.
What do you mean?
Should we go with designed levels (which is currently implemented) or go back to just applying different themes to the same layout(s)? I was expecting you to design the levels if we continue with the first option.
Hard to decide.

Random ones make it easier on modding (needing no map designers) and bigger replay value.

Yet designed maps can be more much interesting, challenging, balanced - if properly done...
Who will design maps? I prefer to focus on art.
Designed maps are better way to go if we add traps.
If we decide not to add traps - then maybe random is better...
But I think for possible Story mode - we can't push it on randomality - we need designed maps anyway...so maybe we should go with designed maps then.

Sure adding random map generation option can be always cool.
Either way, we could also add themed traps.
Sure can be cool :) Though we might want to make them more Keenish at least in look...but also some new Keenish "traps" can be nice...
[Though some might be easier to use with designed levels
Yes, no doubt here....
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Post by DoomJedi »

Traps might require more special actor frames to interact with those...

What traps do you like?

Some of the more interesting is magnet, trampoline, Seesaw, trolley, warp, water, exploding block/dynamite (exploding barrel), Bamboo shoot, electric beam, blind/The Jungle, booster, cannon, claw, cliff, Conveyor Belt, Cracking Floor, curve mark, electric (stun) rope (wire), large snowball, missile, regenerating soft block,

Less cool are bridge, land mine, moving floor.
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Post by DoomJedi »

Added new spritesets (fixed size, + victory animation) for Keen and Mort - so you can start testing.

I really hope we won't need so many frames for each of our 31 characters.
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Post by tulip »

you know you can edit your last post to add some info, which will look tidier, no need to post 4 times in a row.
Image You crack me up little buddy!
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Post by DoomJedi »

I know (you know, I myself administrate 2 forums + am a moderator on one more forum, so I know what I can't or can do more than most people) ...this is one of my "styles"...I'm always afraid someone already read the post and will miss my edit.

On forums I administrate - I don't only not forbid double posting - I encourage it. I don't like to find out I read unupdated post and missed something.
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Post by Dr. Kylstein »

I meant that the rest of the victory screen besides the already extant sprites needed to be made. I suppose I'll go ahead and take care of that myself, along with any additional GUI/HUD stuff that may be needed.

For the victory animation, I suppose I meant "victory dance" figuratively. They can just strike a pose, like a thumbs-up, for example. I think it would be most effective if each character did something unique here to express their personality.

As for traps, I haven't thought of anything specific, but one unique mechanic to fit each theme would be ideal, and Keenish is definitely what I had in mind.
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