Mercury mines

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TerminILL
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Post by TerminILL » Wed Feb 20, 2013 15:03

Surely, then, you'd just have the mines on the "hot side"? Or at least send people there when the mines are sunward.
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Post by Nospike » Wed Feb 20, 2013 15:33

Well that's the problem. The "cold side" is indeed very very cold. On the other hand, the "hot side" usually stays at around 150-200 °C. So I think said mines would definitely be located on the "cold side". Protection against the cold is definitely much simpler than protection against extremely hot environments.
That's assuming the planet is stationary, but in reality it is not. So the best solution would probably be to have mines on both sides of the planet and only using whichever is currently facing away from the Sun.
Last edited by Nospike on Wed Feb 20, 2013 15:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by DoomJedi » Wed Feb 20, 2013 15:34

Keening_Product wrote:
DoomJedi wrote:though it's very hot and hostile
Your lack of interplanetary geological knowledge disappoints me. Mercury's rotation is incredibly, incredibly slow, which means one side of the planet is cold for extended periods of time.

Either that or I'm wrong and I owe you an apology.
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Post by DoomJedi » Wed Feb 20, 2013 15:37

So we all agree that we go with Nukem's "pun" to attach Keen to "so called" Mercury after him visiting Mars... and take him to actual Mercury instead of L.A Mercury Mines....right? Levelass, do you agree? I think planets are more Keenish...on Earth Keen would be fish out of water.
Also there was not much games of Mercury...uncharted territory in gaming.
Last edited by DoomJedi on Wed Feb 20, 2013 17:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by MoffD » Wed Feb 20, 2013 16:59

Nospike wrote:Well that's the problem. The "cold side" is indeed very very cold. On the other hand, the "hot side" usually stays at around 150-200 °C. So I think said mines would definitely be located on the "cold side". Protection against the cold is definitely much simpler than protection against extremely hot environments.
That's assuming the planet is stationary, but in reality it is not. So the best solution would probably be to have mines on both sides of the planet and only using whichever is currently facing away from the Sun.
That would also make sense for mining if it were in a cold environment.

If you wanted to mine gasses/liquids, extreme cold would freeze/condense it. Thus making it easier for mining (For MOST substances)
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Post by Levellass » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:56

Mercury has a hostile surface, but that would be of no concern since any mining operations would be taking place beneath the surface. (With low gravity and no atmosphere surface mining would be far too hazardous.) This would likely negate the fact that Mercury's rotation is quite slow, heating half the planet to immense temperatures while leaving the toher half as cold as the lunar poles.

HOWEVER.

The poles of Mercury are freezing and dark all the time, enough for mineral rich snow to form: http://www.technologyreview.com/article ... ng-planet/ (Including organics, and thus life?) Mines placed at the poles would probably be after lighter materials, water and organics, rather than metals, and thus be easier to construct and operate, as well as being naturally shielded from the sun.

Mercury itself is rich in iron and rare metals like gold and platinum (If you don't mid mining a HUGE tonnage of rocks to get them.)


As for life, I think we'd need at least one rock monster, possibly one that eats mineral (And poops gem door gems!) Possibly also some 'extramercurial' enemies, like spacemen or mining robots.

At this point, for keen 4 at least, patching is no longer an issue, I can rewrite the enemies from the ground up.
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Post by Boreas249 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:46

Should this be a Vorticons mod, or a Galaxy mod?

I couldn't decide on that, I think it should be a Vorticons mod on one hand,on the other I would really like to see it in Galaxy style...

I also had another idea; how about a mod that details what happens after Keen is rescued by Snake Logan? It could have Keen escaping, fighting all kinds of Mangle/Cain's mutants as he tties to make it back home, even having to fight a mutant yorp at one point...

Could be the sequel to this...

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Post by DoomJedi » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:37

Maaan, you're good....like REALLY good....what an impressing goelogical knowledge....I'm truly impressed...
There are some definite pros here, what can I say? I can only learn.
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Levellass - I agree in general.
I think first we need to decide some important things...like

1. Who is in the team of this project?
I think I can handle the enemies, we can also re-use some dusty creature art I've made for the community mod at the time....don't see it being used in any near future.
But I have very little to no tile-making experience (sure not Keen-style) - we need a good tile-maker for this. The same for world map.
Not to mention we need a coder and a mapper.

2. Palette - do we need altered palette for this to fit the color theme of Mercury mines better? What are the dominate colors/shades to expect?

3. Will Mortimer be indeed in this - and in what form?

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Post by DoomJedi » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:41

Boreas249 wrote:Should this be a Vorticons mod, or a Galaxy mod?
Indeed, Duke reference makes Vorticon engine to fit the "energy" of this better.
But still, I think Keen 4 engine is a way to go, much more immersive and with more advanced gameplay, options......

I also had another idea; how about a mod that details what happens after Keen is rescued by Snake Logan?
Maybe he went to Mercury mines, LOL? :)

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Post by Levellass » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:53

That raises the question of how Mangle and proton are related? They could indeed be closely related, as I have noted before. The timeline suggests that Proton's escapade occurs *after* Mangle's, so it's quite possible to have Keen escape Mangle's clutches then go on to tackle Proton's mines.

Indeed, Duke reference makes Vorticon engine to fit the "energy" of this better.
But still, I think Keen 4 engine is a way to go, much more immersive and with more advanced gameplay, options......
Long story short we can do almost anything in Keen 4, but such mods are VERY complex to put together. A vorticon mod using the V2 patch (especially with it's Duke Nukem II ability to have different palettes in different levels, plus music and sloped tiles.) would likely be the best fit for this project. Not only does it give us the possibility of vastly more tiles (910 per level) but it's also simpler at the same time.

Oddly I have done a mining-type game with this patch, The Minkcraft mod.

I think I can handle the enemies, we can also re-use some dusty creature art I've made for the community mod at the time....don't see it being used in any near future.
I do good at patching, and some tile construction. Levels may be a big problem, they're a big chunk of work, and a music designer.
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Post by Gridlock » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:59

Not sure I completely understand the project, but if it's Keen Galaxy engine I'm always willing to do a few level designs if you catch me at the right time. I find level design to be the easiest aspect of modding as long as the tiles are easy enough to understand. I'm not sure how much I want to commit myself to another project though. Once things get done on AR :naglevellass, then I'll be more open to a new project.

If it's a vorticons mod, I doubt I'll be interested in helping. However, I'm not so sure it's a good idea to commit to a full Galaxy mod on a spontaneous idea unless you can commit at least the next year or two to it (AR is nearing three years). From what I hear Doomjedi, you sound like a pretty busy guy already; don't underestimate Galaxy modding.

Also, I would assume that a mod about Mercury would have more realistic, detailed graphics than a lot of recent mods we've seen. This would likely increase the complexity and difficulty of any tile work you do. Sorry to keep bringing up AR, but with that mod I choose a more detailed art style and it's significantly increased the challenge of tile making.

That being said, I would love to see a mod that explores the hot/cold concept. I actually had an idea for an AR sequel with this premise: energy was being siphoned from a moon's core, causing it to split into different zones. Keen would have to reach the core of the planet and destroy some reactor, possibly causing it to explode. I could see a concept like that being adapted for the planet Mercury. Not sure about the whole Dr. Proton angle though. I'm not a big fan of these shared universe stories.
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Post by DoomJedi » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:39

A vorticon mod using the V2 patch (especially with it's Duke Nukem II ability to have different palettes in different levels, plus music and sloped tiles.) would likely be the best fit for this project.
I tend to agree.
Not sure I completely understand the project,
Keen going to Dr. Proton's mines of Mercury, with Mortimer involved as well. L.A. Mercury mines are not too keenish, so we take Keen to actual Mercury, playing on with the "keenishly/planetary-named mines" pun (which seems intentional) of original Duke Nukem.

We want to tell and untold story of Keen "not surviving" the "Mercury Mines" of Dr. Proton....or maybe to tell a story of how Keen made Dr. Proton to think of him as "dead"....you will never know the twists we may put in the ending of this :)

Any more questions? :)

but if it's Keen Galaxy engine
This is not a direction we seem to go...but thank you.
From what I hear Doomjedi, you sound like a pretty busy guy already;
Indeed I am....not only BomberKeen, but many Wolf3D mods in development...I'm busy over the head. Despite that for Wolf3D mods most of the art is already made....but managing some big-scale projects takes lots of time by itself.
The biggest modding project I had thus far was of 4 years, so I do know (in general) to commit for long-term projects...it's just that I'm really busy.

When I offered this idea, I didn't think I might get actually involved in it's making. Later, I offered enemy sprite help - and that's exactly why I didn't offer other help (like tile help) so far. It's too heavy commitment for me at the moment, and I also never made Keen tiles.
I really hope more guys will join to lift this project up.
Levellass is inspiring me with her vision, imagination, attention for details...
don't underestimate Galaxy modding.
...and the Power of the Dark Side...heh :) :) :)
Well, I never modded Keen engine before (beside drawing Keenish art in 16-color palette), so I have no idea/estimations of such modding, it's scale and complexity....but I don't assume it's too easy indeed. So I'll accept any estimations of experienced Keen modders.

If we are not going Galaxy engine, this can be made much faster....though with slopes implemented it seems to be not much different....still, having no perspective saves quite some work.
I think basic squarish tiles I can try to handle myself, but big backgrounds....I think we need someone else. Also slopes....this is alot of work for each tile...it's 4-6 additional tiles for each tile type.....daaaamn....
We need someone with bigger tiling experience.
Not sure about the whole Dr. Proton angle though. I'm not a big fan of these shared universe stories.
I think it's a cool idea, and always a challenge to share universes...the bigger the challenge- the bigger are the possibilities - if made right.
"Keen and Nukem - Apogee Avengers"...yeah, cool idea for a mod after this one :) We can add Dangerous Dave and such - a get a real team of Galaxy protectors :)

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