Game of the Week

[Gridlock]

Yeah, I was one of the first 3 people. I like the survey idea, although we have to be careful that we're not too negative here (don't want people getting offended or upset)

The bonuses category doesn't make much sense, unless you're referring to point placement. Otherwise I don't have too much of a problem with the other categories.

I gave Keen 7 a reasonably high score in most categories. While Keen 7 doesn't compare as well to more recent mods, I have to give it a lot of credit. No one had come close to releasing a Galaxy mod anywhere near Keen 7 before Ceilick, and the fact that he accomplished making such a large game with somewhat outdated modding programs is quite a wonder. Even though people complain about the music, it's still impressive that Ceilick even got music into the rerelease at all, even if it isn't quite up to our current standards. For the first full Keen mod, Keen 7 is marvelous and made everyone realize that Galaxy modding on a large scale was in fact possible.

[Nospike]

^ This. Also, don't forget that the custom music in Keen 7 was mostly a proof-of-concept thing. Ceilick could definitely have gotten better music if he really wanted to, but as Gridlock said, just having replaced it was a huge accomplishment at the time.

[Levellass]

Wasn't there a Keen 7 version 2 project or something?

[StupidBunny]

I guess we're not supposed to talk much about the mods here.

On the contrary, I think part of the value of this is that it (re)opens old mods for renewed discussion and exposes them to newer users that may not have much knowledge or even have heard of them. I'd contribute some comments of my own but truth be told it's been so many years since I last played Keen 7 that I don't feel like I could until I'd revisited it. I do recall it being a joy to play through, and surely stuck out as an impressive achievement, though it didn't hook me and ultimately WOW me quite the way Keen 8 did.

[Ceilick]

It seems the most important thing before starting up the survey is to determine the ideal categories. Keen 7 is a good choice for bringing forward and resolving potential issues with the survey, as can be seen already.

Lets talk about categories.

Graphics. Sprites and the tileset are obviously good choices. I question the importance of animations though, as this seems somewhat superfluous with sprites.

Level Design. You have listed: ammo, bonuses, difficulty, and secrets. Of these, difficulty and secrets seem important. Ammo is superfluous to difficulty. I'm not sure what you mean by bonuses. Point placement? I would propose the additional category of atmosphere; how well the tiles are placed to create a scene, or how well the platforms construct paths/arenas.

When rating difficulty, we need to decide: are we giving a 'this mod is easy/hard' statement (10 = super hard, 1 = super easy), or are we commenting on whether the hardness or easiness of the mod is 'good', where too hard or too easy is tedious, and just the right amount of hard or easy is fun. If the later, maybe it the category should just be “enjoyability”.

Sound/Music. Sound effects, music. Pretty straight forward.

Patches. How should patching be rated? 'Usage' is rather vague. A good basis, I think, is how seamless is the effect of the patching on gameplay and whether something remains unpatched that should have been changed, subject to what is feasible.

Concept. This seems superfluous to the story category. The concept of a mod seems to be often inherent to another category; for example, my mods it is often the story, compared to Keenrush's which is the gameplay altering patching.

Story. Seems good on its own.

Re-Play. Seems unnecessary given the genre of game.

Additionally, since it is important to recognize the historical importance/circumstances in which the mod was released, and since such matters ideally shouldn't skew the other categories, I purpose a 'Significance' category. How influential is the mod to the Keen and/or Keen-modding community? Did this mod set major precedents? How important is it to play this mod? This category might be split between significance and some sort of category that takes into account how a mod rated amongst it's peers at the time it was released.

[StupidBunny]

I like Ceilick's proposals, especially atmosphere, which is important and isn't terribly represented here, and making the "difficulty" question a rating of difficulty itself, rather than of quality strictly.

[lemm]

I think you should rework the level design category.

Questions like "How effective was the enemy placement," or, "How enjoyable was the level," would yield more informative results than what you have now.

[Slayterdawg]

I agree that adjustments can and should be made to the current survey. I'll generate a modified survey today.

I have a basic account at surveymonkey. Unlimited surveys stay open for 100 respondents. (Basic data analysis and graphics.) I have enter results in a spreadsheet and with the use of a pivot table, can sort and summarizes numerous ways. Survey does not include name of respondent, however does track ip address. In the future, ip addresses can be summarized so that everyone can get a report on how they rated each MOD.

I'm currently playing Keen 7 for the first time.
My thoughts are to play the TUIT trilogy and then play a Keen (1-3)
MOD (Shmaynoria).


If you want to know survey results here they are:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/11yk3i7r7nm0k ... yWeek1.PNG

[Slayterdawg]

I created a generic survey. The PCKF needs to have input to finalize a standard. I know, there will be many opinions, but the idea is to create a standard ranking system that adds value for game play review.

There has been 11 respondents to the first survey. If the community wants a different survey, respondents should resubmit.

Many questions have been asked. I guess you could argue about any category because we all see things slightly different. What's enjoyable to me, maybe boring to others. Others might enjoy a very difficult game, where I might get frustrated.

To aid in some clarification, comments can be made to each category. Example, Ammo, Fair... Not enough guns
or Ammo, Fair... too much ammo accumulates

generic survey
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/96MSR39

[Roobar]

Why between each column from poor to outstanding there is one empty column between the others? It's totally unnecessary. Just 6 options are about enough.

And the balance between the questions is wrong. Some have from poor to outstanding, while others have from bad to excellent. Either all are from poor to outstanding or all are from bad to excellent (I would use the second one).

In 2. Level Design add Aliens/Enemies and maybe puzzles.

And about the music. If a mod doesn't have a music or sound at all? How can this be poor, fair, good or excellent?

If a mod uses the original commander keen sounds and music and not new, how could this be rated? I mean yeah, it may not use new music or sounds, but that's the keen standard after all. For example because a mod doesn't use original music doesn't mean the music is bad. I would vote poor for not using original music, while in fact I very much like the original music. How should I vote?

And what if you want to rate a multiplayer mod?

Also, lets say you have played a mod and decided to take a survey. But you're not familiar with modding or mods in general. How could you determine whether the significance of the mod is important or not?

[Slayterdawg]

The survey has a rating scale from 0-10. I have always had a problem with surveys from 1-5 because I always wanted to choose in between the rating scale (A little better than very good but not quite excellent), and because 4 out of 5 is not as good as 9 of 10.

I do like adding the puzzle topic.

The I'll fix the scale rating descriptions to be consistent.

[Levellass]

The problem I have with 1-10 scales is that people have three settings: hate it (1-2), eh (5), or awesome (9-10). I'm seriously not sure how well any kind of polls like that reflect actual quality.

[mortimer]

[Nospike]

I think 1-10 scales could be used for the individual aspects of a mod. Then use the average as the mod's total score or something like that.
As for the hate, eh and good factor, not all people are like that. Especially if we're trying to be objective.

[Levellass]

Case in point: Gaming magazines.