Trouble running Keen 9 Battle Of The Brains

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krivulak
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Re: Trouble running Keen 9 Battle Of The Brains

Post by krivulak » Wed Jan 17, 2018 20:14

Sorry that it took so long. Here is video of the problem: https://youtu.be/ACi5XeKr--w

And here is what was requested:

CONFIG.SYS

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DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF
BUFFERS=15,0
FILES=30
DOS=UMB
LASTDRIVE=E
FCBS=4,0
DEVICE=C:\OPTI930\cdsetup.sys /T:X
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,12048 =C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DOS=HIGH
COUNTRY=042,,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,15792 =C:\DOS\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
AUTOEXEC.BAT

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SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
SET SOUND16=C:\OPTI930
C:\OPTI930\sndinit /b
LH /L:0;2,45456 /S C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X
@ECHO OFF
PROMPT $p$g
PATH C:\DOS
SET TEMP=C:\DOS
MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE=((852) C:\DOS\EGA.CPI)
MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=852
LH /L:1,17936 KEYB CZ,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
PATH  %PATH%;C:\OPTI930
LH /L:0;1,3104 /S C:\CTMOUSE\CTMOUSE
MEM

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Memory Type        Total  =   Used  +   Free
----------------  -------   -------   -------
Conventional         640K       22K      618K
Upper                 91K       47K       44K
Reserved               0K        0K        0K
Extended (XMS)*   56 165K    2 613K   53 552K
----------------  -------   -------   -------
Total memory      56 896K    2 682K   54 214K

Total under 1 MB     731K       69K      662K

Total Expanded (EMS)                33 152 (33 947 648 bytes
Free Expanded (EMS)*                32 768 (33 554 432 bytes

* EMM386 is using XMS memory to simulate EMS memory as needed.
  Free EMS memory may change as free XMS memory changes.

Largest executable program size       618K (632 640 bytes)  
Largest free upper memory block        36K  (36 448 bytes)  
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.
MEM /D

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Conventional Memory Detail:

  Segment               Total        Name         Type
  -------          ----------------  -----------  --------
   00000              1 039    (1K)               Interrupt Vector
   00040                271    (0K)               ROM Communication Area
   00050                527    (1K)               DOS Communication Area
   00070              2 656    (3K)  IO           System Data
                                        CON       System Device Driver
                                        AUX       System Device Driver
                                        PRN       System Device Driver
                                        CLOCK$    System Device Driver
                                        A: - C:   System Device Driver
                                        COM1      System Device Driver
                                        LPT1      System Device Driver
                                        LPT2      System Device Driver
                                        LPT3      System Device Driver
                                        COM2      System Device Driver
                                        COM3      System Device Driver
                                        COM4      System Device Driver
   00116              5 072    (5K)  MSDOS        System Data
   00253              9 920   (10K)  IO           System Data
                      1 104    (1K)     XMSXXXX0  Installed Device=HIMEM   
                      4 128    (4K)     EMMXXXX0  Installed Device=EMM386  
                      1 488    (1K)               FILES=30
                        256    (0K)               FCBS=4
                        512    (1K)               BUFFERS=15
                        448    (0K)               LASTDRIVE=E
                      1 856    (2K)               STACKS=9,128
   004BF                 80    (0K)  MSDOS        System Program
   004C4              2 656    (3K)  COMMAND      Program
   0056A                 80    (0K)  MSDOS        -- Free --
   0056F                272    (0K)  COMMAND      Environment
   00580                160    (0K)  MEM          Environment
   0058A             88 992   (87K)  MEM          Program
   01B44            543 664  (531K)  MSDOS        -- Free --

Upper Memory Detail:

  Segment  Region       Total        Name         Type
  -------  ------  ----------------  -----------  --------
   0B14A       1        496    (0K)  IO           System Data
                        464    (0K)     SETVERXX  Installed Device=SETVER  
   0B169       1      8 320    (8K)  IO           System Data
                      8 288    (8K)     CON       Installed Device=DISPLAY 
   0B371       1        144    (0K)  MSDOS        -- Free --
   0B37A       1      6 944    (7K)  KEYB         Program
   0B52C       1      3 104    (3K)  1           Program
   0B5EE       1         16    (0K)  MSDOS        -- Free --
   0B5EF       1      8 432    (8K)  MSDOS        -- Free --

   0D001       2         48    (0K)  MSDOS        -- Free --
   0D004       2     29 024   (28K)  SMARTDRV     Program
   0D71A       2     36 448   (36K)  MSDOS        -- Free --

Memory Summary:

  Type of Memory       Total   =    Used    +    Free
  ----------------  ----------   ----------   ----------
  Conventional         655 360       22 624      632 736
  Upper                 93 008       47 920       45 088
  Reserved                   0            0            0
  Extended (XMS)*   57 513 136    2 675 888   54 837 248
  ----------------  ----------   ----------   ----------
  Total memory      58 261 504    2 746 432   55 515 072

  Total under 1 MB     748 368       70 544      677 824


  Handle      EMS Name      Size   
  -------     --------     ------  
        0                  060000

  Total Expanded (EMS)                33 947 648 (33 152K
  Free Expanded (EMS)*                33 554 432 (32 768K

  * EMM386 is using XMS memory to simulate EMS memory as needed.
    Free EMS memory may change as free XMS memory changes.

  Memory accessible using Int 15h              0     (0K)
  Largest executable program size        632 640   (618K)
  Largest free upper memory block         36 448    (36K)
  MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

  XMS version  3.00; driver version  3.16
  EMS version  4.00

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keenmaster486
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Re: Trouble running Keen 9 Battle Of The Brains

Post by keenmaster486 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 20:27

Hmm hmm hmm.

I do recall running into those error messages in that video from time to time. But I'm pretty sure I fixed it eventually.

The drivers SETVER, DISPLAY, and KEYB take up 14-15 KB between them and are not necessary for the vast majority of DOS stuff. You can also remove the MODE commands in AUTOEXEC.

I don't know if that cdsetup.sys thing is taking up any memory but it won't affect performance if you remove it, it'll probably just disable your CD drive.

SMARTDRV just speeds up disk access but you won't notice its absence unless you are copying very large files between hard drives or from a CD. You can remove it from AUTOEXEC with almost no repercussions on performance and it will free 28K of memory for you.


When I get home today I will check out my DOS laptop and see how I've got it set up. I know I started with a fresh DOS installation and let the QEMM installer do all of the memory tricks for me.
I flermmed the plootash just like you asked.
Very silly indeed: https://audaxeundum.wordpress.com/

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krivulak
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Re: Trouble running Keen 9 Battle Of The Brains

Post by krivulak » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:52

I don't know why, but I have 615k free, but Keen never takes more then 347k of standard and 64kb of expanded making it 411kb total memory allocated. I never managed it to see Extended memory...

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Re: Trouble running Keen 9 Battle Of The Brains

Post by keenmaster486 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 18:03

krivulak wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:52
I don't know why, but I have 615k free, but Keen never takes more then 347k of standard and 64kb of expanded making it 411kb total memory allocated. I never managed it to see Extended memory...
I can never figure this out either... The amount of memory that Keen claims it has taken doesn't seem to have any effect on whether the game runs properly. What matters is how much actual free memory you have.
I flermmed the plootash just like you asked.
Very silly indeed: https://audaxeundum.wordpress.com/

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krivulak
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Re: Trouble running Keen 9 Battle Of The Brains

Post by krivulak » Fri Jan 19, 2018 18:53

Well - I can't agree with that. If Keen didn't crash, then OK. But in this position no.

I need to find the beta version of Keen 9 just to have the cheats turned on so I can look at the memory stats.

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Re: Trouble running Keen 9 Battle Of The Brains

Post by Nisaba » Fri Jan 19, 2018 22:17

krivulak wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 18:53
Well - I can't agree with that. If Keen didn't crash, then OK. But in this position no.

I need to find the beta version of Keen 9 just to have the cheats turned on so I can look at the memory stats.
look no further, here is a cheat-friendly version for ya: link / mirror link
(even though you cannot use the F10 + D respectively F10 + S cheat. both have been overwritten. F10 + M works by the way, plus you don't need the debug keys (A+2+ENTER) to activate any other cheats.)
Last edited by Nisaba on Sat Jan 20, 2018 13:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trouble running Keen 9 Battle Of The Brains

Post by K1n9_Duk3 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 22:57

krivulak wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:52
I don't know why, but I have 615k free, but Keen never takes more then 347k of standard and 64kb of expanded making it 411kb total memory allocated. I never managed it to see Extended memory...
The amount of free memory that the Keen games show on the startup screen is the free memory AFTER the executable itself was loaded into memory. What MEM shows is the amount of free memory BEFORE the executable is loaded. That's where that difference comes from (the uncompressed KEEN5E.EXE alone is about 259k).

I've also seen the Galaxy engine fail to detect XMS on actual hardware. Wolf3D does detect XMS on the same system, but it handles XMS through the "page manager", not the "memory manager". And the Galaxy engine did not have the "page manager". The page manager in Wolf3D is responsible for loading the wall textures, sprites and digitized sounds into memory, all of which are in entirely new formats compared to the Galaxy engine. It could be possible to modify/patch the XMS code in Keen 4-6 to work more like the code in Wolf3D's page manager, but I'm not sure.

There's also a nasty message to Microsoft in the XMS.C file from the IGRAB source code (that was released in the Rise of the Triad goodies pack). I'm not sure if it is related to the issues you and I are experiencing, but it's possible. I won't quote it here, but it basically mentions an issue with the HIMEM.SYS driver from MS-DOS 5.0.
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Re: Trouble running Keen 9 Battle Of The Brains

Post by keenmaster486 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 21:58

Okay, so I just checked my DOS laptop.
With QEMM, I have 631K conventional memory free.
Keen 9 ends up with 490K free memory, and runs perfectly, even the levels you showed in your video, with background music and everything.
So does Valentines Keen and all the rest. And this is even with loading DOSKEY and CTMOUSE, can't remember if SMARTDRV is loaded but I don't think so.

My suggestion is to start with a fresh DOS install (i.e. just "sys a: c:" from a bootable floppy), clear out the CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT completely, and run the automated QEMM 9 install from its install disks, letting it decide how to apportion your memory. Take a minimalist approach; don't add things that you don't need like SMARTDRV.
I flermmed the plootash just like you asked.
Very silly indeed: https://audaxeundum.wordpress.com/

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