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Need art help for big Keen easter egg/tribute

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:18
by DoomJedi
As some of you might know, (that beside being big Keen fan) I'm a head spriter for "WolfenDoom - Blade of Agony" mod/project.
http://boa.realm667.com/
http://www.moddb.com/mods/wolfendoom-blade-of-agony
Image

There are 3D Keen levels that are planned for this mod, based on Keen 4 (please don't take this out of this forum, don't want to make too much of a spoiler).
For that, we need to make Keen 4 enemies at least 4-directional (no need for 8 directional, but sure would be nice to have).
I'm loaded with other art tasks for the mod and we'd like to (luckily) get help with Keen community spriters for this task (with credit).

This is a big nice tribute to Keen game (and we can even add easter eggs for big community mods there) so would there be a chance community effort to make Keen art usable for WolfenDoom?

Re: Need art help for big Keen easter egg/tribute

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 15:15
by Grimson
What size would the creatures' canvases have to be? Also, by 4-directional I assume it's front, back, left and right? Also x2, should they be limited to the 16 EGA colours (or any colours that come close enough that Doom's default palette has) or utilize all 256 colours of the palette?

Sorry, I'm completely oblivious to Doom's sprite workings :o

Re: Need art help for big Keen easter egg/tribute

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 18:53
by DoomJedi
What size would the creatures' canvases have to be?
Well, same resolution/size as original Keen 4 art, just more rotations of existing classic Keen 4 art.
We can scale sprites as we wish inside GZDoom engine to any visual or relative size.
The purpose is not to increase resolution, just to have directional rotations, within 3d engine, for obvious reasons.
Also x2, should they be limited to the 16 EGA colours (or any colours that come close enough that Doom's default palette has) or utilize all 256 colours of the palette?
Well, we use truecolor, so palettes are not an issue, we are not limited to 8bit palettes (though I myself used Hexen one for the guards because of nice greens and browns, as my art tools are fit for 8bit). We just want Keen for art to have more rotations, but look recognizable look-wise, so don't see a particular need to alter original colors.
by 4-directional I assume it's front, back, left and right?
Yes :) Like in BomberKeen :) Only using original Keen 4 artbase.
Sure 8dir will be even better, just would be too big of an effort (?)
Sorry, I'm completely oblivious to Doom's sprite workings
This is not just Doom, it's GZDoom engine, its very advanced (the most advanced actually), we are VERY flexible with art we can use. Palettes, scaling etc.

Re: Need art help for big Keen easter egg/tribute

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 14:41
by Grimson
Welp, I started working on one of my favourite creatures - the Mad Mushroom! Not much done yet, but since I'll be out the weekend, I figured I'd show what I've got. What do you think about the lighting/shadowing? I changed the original sprites too to match Doom's general, top-down lighting style.

*Image deleted, scroll below for latest version*

Oh and I know the rear frames look incredibly dull :( but what can I do? Too bad the Mushroom had no kind of texture on its cap or stalk, only plain cyan... >:

Re: Need art help for big Keen easter egg/tribute

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 15:25
by DoomJedi
Wow, look fantastic! Superb job, I knew I need to leave such tasks to Keen experts!
:love :love

Re: Need art help for big Keen easter egg/tribute

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 18:24
by guynietoren
I think what you're missing on the back sprites are the bottom of the stalk. I think he's bending the bottom of the stalk out from under him and pointing it back in one frame. Maybe that's just my perspective of it. Also I'd change the shading to match the other sprites.

Image
Just a start anyway. The bottom needs to be lighter and maybe a * pattern instead of flat dithering to look like the underside of the cap. I tried, but it looks too much like a butt hole. Could also put a shiny white spot on the back of his head where it's not visible in the normal sprite, but that might be pushing it. I get how it needs to look like an extension of the original set and not a remake.

Re: Need art help for big Keen easter egg/tribute

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 20:31
by DoomJedi
Can't say I love the last rotation....my take on it:
Image

Re: Need art help for big Keen easter egg/tribute

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 16:41
by Tormentor667
Awesome work indeed :) By the way, if you people need an overview what needs to be done, simply check this GitHub folder:
https://github.com/Realm667/WolfenDoom/ ... regg/ckeen
(best thing would be downloading the whole folder as a ZIP from here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nrwa9a4lsjuqq ... n.zip?dl=0)

Re: Need art help for big Keen easter egg/tribute

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 16:56
by Nisaba
just checked your package... are you sure you gonna use the entire K4 enemies set for this easter egg? (and what about the mooning?!)


EDIT: anyways, here is my Mad Mushroom interpretation:
Image

Re: Need art help for big Keen easter egg/tribute

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 21:08
by K1n9_Duk3
Nisaba wrote:
Sun Feb 12, 2017 16:56
just checked your package
Pun intended?

Re: Need art help for big Keen easter egg/tribute

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 23:27
by Grimson
Okay, I think I've finished the Mad Mushroom. Click the image to view it in 2x scale.

Image
guynietoren wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2017 18:24
I think what you're missing on the back sprites are the bottom of the stalk. I think he's bending the bottom of the stalk out from under him and pointing it back in one frame.
Yeah, that's how I see it too. I changed the back frames to better reflect this, inspired by your design.
guynietoren wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2017 18:24
The bottom needs to be lighter and maybe a * pattern instead of flat dithering to look like the underside of the cap. I tried, but it looks too much like a butt hole.
I tried dithering the bottom in various ways but they all ended up looking butt-ugly. I prefer to avoid dithering in such a small scale anyway.
DoomJedi wrote:
Fri Feb 10, 2017 20:31
Can't say I love the last rotation....
That was a WIP, after I had done crude versions of the side frames I realized the stalk ended up too narrow :-| Yours looks good too, although the lighting is IMO too different from the rest (too much contrast).

Re: Need art help for big Keen easter egg/tribute

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:34
by KeenRush
That looks so deliciously good. :scary

Re: Need art help for big Keen easter egg/tribute

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:49
by DoomJedi
Grimson wrote:
Sun Feb 12, 2017 23:27
Yours looks good too, although the lighting is IMO too different from the rest (too much contrast).
Yeah, my art style is a bit different, and hard to let go...your version is more keenish, more consistent with Keen style and shading.
I'd still add some depth to your cap in the side frames, hard for me to think the cap can be aligned perfectly horizontally for sideview with no depth showing...look at my variant. Maybe I'll merge them a bit.

Re: Need art help for big Keen easter egg/tribute

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:27
by Grimson
DoomJedi wrote:
Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:49
I'd still add some depth to your cap in the side frames, hard for me to think the cap can be aligned perfectly horizontally for sideview with no depth showing...
Ah, yeah, I noticed that. The way I see it, the cap is tilted so that you'd be unable to see its underside from the sides. Though I agree your way looks better.

How's this? I also slightly edited some of the other frames.

Image
Click to view in 2x scale.

Re: Need art help for big Keen easter egg/tribute

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:31
by DoomJedi
Looks fantastic! :) :love

Time to start on next enemy I think :)