KEEN1.EXE

szemi · Post by **szemi** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 17:00

If I make a Keen 1 mod, is it illegal to rename KEEN1.EXE or not?

Nospike · Post by **Nospike** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 17:19

It's not, but why would you do it? I get the feeling CKPatch won't work with it either.

szemi · Post by **szemi** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 17:26

I know, just asked.

Roobar · Post by **Roobar** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 18:23

Why are people still asking such questions? If I scream in the forest, will you hear it or will you be able to determinate how would it was? The same goes for keen. Nobody cares! And by nobody I mean the business. As long as 0.0004% of the world population is actively aware of the existence of Commander Keen (calculation based on the fb fans + the forum fans + I added a few thousands more) you can do whatever you want. If Keen was popular like Super Mario and id was making new keens, therefore making a profit deal of it, maybe, just maybe then you should ask yourself about that. Even such a popular franchise like Mario doesn't stop thousands of people to make clones using original graphics, sounds etc. What is more, you're not doing it for commercial purposes. So again, nobody cares.

szemi · Post by **szemi** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 18:28

wiivn wrote:Why are people still asking such questions? If I scream in the forest, will you hear it or will you be able to determinate how would it was? The same goes for keen. No body cares! And by nobody I mean the business. As long as 0.0004% of the world population is actively aware of the existence of Commander Keen (calculation based on the fb fans + the forum fans + I added a few thousands more) you can do whatever you want. If Keen was popular like Super Mario and id was making new keens, therefore making a profit deal of it, maybe, just maybe then you should ask yourself about that. Even such a popular franchise like Mario doesn't stop thousands of people to make clones using original graphics, sounds etc. What is more, you're not doing it for commercial purposes. So again, nobody cares.

Could you post a normal answer? Thanks.

Roobar · Post by **Roobar** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 18:41

Why are you asking such a question in the first place? Whether it's illegal or not it doesn't matter because nobody cares.

szemi · Post by **szemi** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 18:46

Just because. Anyway if nobody cares, that's just a thing. I just asked, because I maximally respect the copyright. =) Is that a problem?

Roobar · Post by **Roobar** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 19:25

Yes it's a "problem" (not really). Technically, if you "maximally respect the copyright" (whatever that means) you shouldn't have been releasing your mods without asking id software for their permission. Now, how does that makes you "maximally" respecting the copyrights?

szemi · Post by **szemi** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 19:59

Well, if something is free to distribute, I distribute, if something isn't free to distribute, I don't distribute.

Roobar · Post by **Roobar** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 20:30

You should know that you can freely distribute Keen 1 as long as you don't change a thing from the original game files. Technically, if id want, they can send you a cease and desist letter right away for all of your mods (no matter if you include or exclude the exe and for all the other pckf mods for that matter), but that's unlikely to ever happen for many reasons. Mostly because they don't care, which is my point.

Post by **Levellass** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:54

Why are you asking such a question in the first place? Whether it's illegal or not it doesn't matter because nobody cares.

Next door has an annoying cat. It's part stray and keeps coming over my yard. I could poison it with cyanide, (as potassium ferrocyanide.) which isn't illegal and be rid of a problem.

As long as I don't draw attention to it, nobody will care. This makes the morality of this action moot!

My God... I wonder what else I can get away with if people don't care?

you shouldn't have been releasing your mods without asking id software for their permission.

So let me get this straight, people HAVEN'T been asking 3D Realms for permission? I got mine years ago. It's not that hard.

guynietoren · Post by **guynietoren** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:46

I'm pretty sure they're happy to give permissions out for modders, since it helps increase the Keen fanbase with no cost to them. But it's likely abandonware*. It's still copyrighted, but they "don't care" enough to even look for violators. Most of the mods continue with Keen's image, rather than degrade it anyway. So letting modder's run rampant is great if those people don't profit from it.

*
"Abandonware is a product, typically a software, ignored by its owner and manufacturer, and for which no product support is available. It is differentiated from a discontinued product because the manufacturer has not issued an official notice of discontinuance, instead, the manufacturer is simply ignoring the product. Copyright ownership may be unclear because while the manufacturer is ignoring the product it may not be tracking or enforcing copyright violations."

spikey · Post by **spikey** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 13:33

Next door has an annoying cat. It's part stray and keeps coming over my yard. I could poison it with cyanide, (as potassium ferrocyanide.) which isn't illegal and be rid of a problem.

As long as I don't draw attention to it, nobody will care. This makes the morality of this action moot!

My God... I wonder what else I can get away with if people don't care?

I don't want to get into a big debate here, especially because I think the Lass is generally awesome, but I can't let that comment stand.

The point is that for something to be morally wrong (other than say, legally wrong), it should be causing a party harm. Poisoning a cat and killing it is morally wrong, finito, the cat's animal rights have been violated and it doesn't have a choice. It also can't be put back to the point it was before (i.e. living).
Modding Keen 1 causes 3DR/ID no economic loss, and potentially brings in fans and continued support for their older franchises (although that's a bit of a long bow). If said Keen mods were sold, that would be morally questionable, although that's another story.
Additionally, if there was a legit legal problem, or if someone was distributing for profit or whatever, ID can stop it and that's that.

One of my pet hates in the old game/abandonware community is this outdated notion that piracy of an old game, let alone something as vanilla as modding an old game or releasing a levelpack is that it's akin to video piracy or stealing a car (or killing a cat, apparently). It's just so different that I can't fathom how people can take the viewpoint, let alone publically stand behind it.

Let's just make sure that people KEEP playing the oldies and modding and levelmaking and etc, not berating them for not asking permission from defunct companies (in the case of 3DR). otherwise we may as well resurrect Joe Siegler and he can run the Apogee community.

TerminILL · Post by **TerminILL** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 13:44

I don't think Lass has ever been opposed to the notion of modding. Each of her posts is a rich baklava of commentary. Layers and layers of flaky, delicious facetiousness and irony must be cut through to decipher her true opinions.

On the original topic, renaming keen1.exe is a bad idea and you should feel bad about it. Even if only because it'll break ckpatch.

Post by **Flaose** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 14:30

Generally, the modification of shareware executables (.exe files) is considered a violation of the shareware distribution right (i.e. is illegal). As far as I understand, renaming keen1.exe would be considered a modification, albeit a simply reversed one. Also, like TerminILL said, ckpatch isn't a big fan of such things.