Do you like my Keen output/work?
Do you like my Keen output/work?
I feel like it's time for a small poll I probably should've taken several years ago. Not that the results are guaranteed to have any effect on the future, but they might.
Expand your vote to a comment by trying to tell what aspects of it all you like or don't (or both). You don't have to be coherent. Just speak.
Don't consider this as any attention begging shiit, I just want to have a sort of general view after more than 10 years of doing things.
Expand your vote to a comment by trying to tell what aspects of it all you like or don't (or both). You don't have to be coherent. Just speak.
Don't consider this as any attention begging shiit, I just want to have a sort of general view after more than 10 years of doing things.
My newest mod - Commander Keen: Sunset: viewtopic.php?t=8568 | codename H.Y.E.N.A.
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- Kuliwho?
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I enjoy what you do - it pushes boundaries a long, LONG way, creates new challenges (in every sense of the word) and gives something more for the technical or adventurous Keener.
Actually, you probably also give something to the bored Keener, as your work is usually so different and challenging it has an entirely new feeling and new dimensions for people to discover.
Keep pushing boundaries! (Or just doing whatever you like, really.)
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ALSO: I love how KeenRush of all people circumvented the language filter.
Actually, you probably also give something to the bored Keener, as your work is usually so different and challenging it has an entirely new feeling and new dimensions for people to discover.
Keep pushing boundaries! (Or just doing whatever you like, really.)
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ALSO: I love how KeenRush of all people circumvented the language filter.
Keening_Product was defeated before the game.
"Wise words. One day I may even understand what they mean." - Levellass
"Wise words. One day I may even understand what they mean." - Levellass
I think you should have gathered how much I admire your mods and levels by now!! There is not really any aspect of your work that I dislike. That should be the way in video games. Of course no-one likes failing at a task and indeed I often fail at levels in your mods - but that is because I am a poor gamer who can only claim to have truly mastered Keen1 among commercial games. When I persevere at your levels the feeling of acheivement is astounding.
Of course it is an untruth to say that you have far exceeded other modders in modding terms. But everyone has something different to bring to modding. Your graphics for instance are solid and easy on the eye, but perhaps someone like Xky has an unequalled level of finesse. Your levels are the thing that is most strongly associated with your mods. I think Episode Smile was the mod that brought this association about - a lot of mockery occurred because of the levels' difficulty and I hope you didn't take it too seriously. No-one ever doubted the quality of the levels in Smile. Instead many were overwhelmed of what was required of the player. If you think of other mods of that time, very few approached the difficulty of Smile. If anything mine did (in terms of a death-to-completion ratio), but that was due to unwise, brutish and childish insistence on overly sized levels - rather than any great intelligent charm.
The world of modding/keen editing has evolved over the years due to patching as well as an expansion in the types of themes addressed. But I think your works have made their mark on that of others. Which is a good sign. Play the Banana Mod to see a fantastic new project that, although it was in development simultaneously with Extinction, has real-time challenges that should appeal to you!
Anyway I shall stop here. Please continue modding as it is appreciated!
Of course it is an untruth to say that you have far exceeded other modders in modding terms. But everyone has something different to bring to modding. Your graphics for instance are solid and easy on the eye, but perhaps someone like Xky has an unequalled level of finesse. Your levels are the thing that is most strongly associated with your mods. I think Episode Smile was the mod that brought this association about - a lot of mockery occurred because of the levels' difficulty and I hope you didn't take it too seriously. No-one ever doubted the quality of the levels in Smile. Instead many were overwhelmed of what was required of the player. If you think of other mods of that time, very few approached the difficulty of Smile. If anything mine did (in terms of a death-to-completion ratio), but that was due to unwise, brutish and childish insistence on overly sized levels - rather than any great intelligent charm.
The world of modding/keen editing has evolved over the years due to patching as well as an expansion in the types of themes addressed. But I think your works have made their mark on that of others. Which is a good sign. Play the Banana Mod to see a fantastic new project that, although it was in development simultaneously with Extinction, has real-time challenges that should appeal to you!
Anyway I shall stop here. Please continue modding as it is appreciated!
I wrote out a longish, self-indulgent, ass-kissing post, but then threw it away. Apparently I've earned a vague reputation for being blunt around here. Either way, I'll be fairly short and sweet.
Your mods are way too damn hard for me. I say for me, because honestly I'm a pretty wimpy Keener. Low perserverance and low skill stop me getting too far. But, hard or no, I give most things a look, and I've usually liked what I've seen in your mods, even if I was cursing it vaguely while reaching for a load-state key. You do things with understated but definite style, and your mods are well renowned within the community for good reason. New and interesting things come out of your mods, and I hope they keep doing so, even if I barely play them.
Your mods are way too damn hard for me. I say for me, because honestly I'm a pretty wimpy Keener. Low perserverance and low skill stop me getting too far. But, hard or no, I give most things a look, and I've usually liked what I've seen in your mods, even if I was cursing it vaguely while reaching for a load-state key. You do things with understated but definite style, and your mods are well renowned within the community for good reason. New and interesting things come out of your mods, and I hope they keep doing so, even if I barely play them.
Shonikado wrote:Looking back on what we've done and wanting to change it is the first step in becoming a weakling that cannot do anything.
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- Kuliwho?
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^Oh yeah, that too.TerminILL wrote:Your mods are way too damn hard for me. I say for me, because honestly I'm a pretty wimpy Keener.
I wish you'd said that before I got a chance to post.TerminILL wrote:I wrote out a longish, self-indulgent, ass-kissing post, but then threw it away.
Keening_Product was defeated before the game.
"Wise words. One day I may even understand what they mean." - Levellass
"Wise words. One day I may even understand what they mean." - Levellass
- troublesomekeen
- Vorticon Elite
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That makes three of us.Keening_Product wrote:^Oh yeah, that too.TerminILL wrote: honestly I'm a pretty wimpy Keener.
Wow. 10 years. You're like.. one of the untouchables! You're one of the pieces that hold everything up. As a matter o' fact, you remind me of...
I'm not able to critique your stuff seriously, because I'm just a fan. ^^
Simply being able to put a finished Keen mod on the wiki is huge.
Last edited by troublesomekeen on Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:50, edited 1 time in total.
Commander Keen in... Canteloupe Quest!
Love your work, hate your implementation.
Not all of us are advanced keening cyborgs from the future with frame-perfect reactions able to glide through levels that destroy ordinary humans. Even making a tribute level to you had to be done with something far easier than you would build.
Not all of us are advanced keening cyborgs from the future with frame-perfect reactions able to glide through levels that destroy ordinary humans. Even making a tribute level to you had to be done with something far easier than you would build.
What you really need, not what you think you ought to want.
Thank you all for your comments. It feels great to read even one appreciative (and it seems there are more than one!) opinion. Not to mention the poll results. So thank you people!
Now, I understand the difficulty of my levels is a factor that causes some trouble -- obviously, the levels being what people play in a mod. And I've been trying to work on that -- after A New Dope I've gradually tried to make things easier but it seems to be difficult because meanwhile my skills have gotten better and I lose the perspective again. However, I have to keep on trying. One method I've found out is taking enough vodka and playing and seeing if I can pass my levels. Not fool-proof though... Anyway -- I thought IceKeen levels were playable but people had problems with them (sure there are some very difficult levels there but on purpose, I'm talking about the majority of the levels). When the next project drops, I hope you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Now, I understand the difficulty of my levels is a factor that causes some trouble -- obviously, the levels being what people play in a mod. And I've been trying to work on that -- after A New Dope I've gradually tried to make things easier but it seems to be difficult because meanwhile my skills have gotten better and I lose the perspective again. However, I have to keep on trying. One method I've found out is taking enough vodka and playing and seeing if I can pass my levels. Not fool-proof though... Anyway -- I thought IceKeen levels were playable but people had problems with them (sure there are some very difficult levels there but on purpose, I'm talking about the majority of the levels). When the next project drops, I hope you'll be pleasantly surprised.
My newest mod - Commander Keen: Sunset: viewtopic.php?t=8568 | codename H.Y.E.N.A.
I have enjoyed some of your recent work, because on occasion it is fun to play a harder challenge. I do think you could vary your work more if you adopt a slightly more artistic approach to modding. Some of your recent work (especially IceKeen) has seemed very minimalistic, which isn't always a style choice that draws people in. Level design is a crucial part of that and can be artistic in itself, but I think most mods (except for some puzzle mods) need more than just clever challenges. Perhaps what a lot of your levels seem to lack is setting and structure. My advice is to keep experimenting with visual and design styles. Hopefully this is the honest answer you're looking for
And I have been very impressed with some of your mods, particularly Fall Up and Extinction. The clever ideas and puzzles kept me invested in them even when they got a bit long and repetitive.
And I have been very impressed with some of your mods, particularly Fall Up and Extinction. The clever ideas and puzzles kept me invested in them even when they got a bit long and repetitive.
Armageddon Begins Again. The Alphamatic has arrived.
Atroxian Realm: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3536
The Alphamatic: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4086
As I've mentioned before, your work consistently gives me the impression that while we're all modding, you're designing games that just happen to use the Keen engine.
While I don't mind the difficulty in your work (I've found all except Smile to be very playable for the most part), I think it would be beneficial to the development of your style to experiment with level design that rarely enforces the death penalty.
While I don't mind the difficulty in your work (I've found all except Smile to be very playable for the most part), I think it would be beneficial to the development of your style to experiment with level design that rarely enforces the death penalty.
What I like about KR's later mods (as well as Banana Mod) was the unlimited lives which made you feel less of a cheater/waste less time whilst making multiple attempts at the level. The means of penitence in Keen are limited. I mean, if instead of dying you got teleported to the start of the level, then you would have the task of redoing the level to the point where you were teleported. This is not a very different experience to dying.Ceilick wrote:enforces
Perhaps loss of opportunity to gain power-ups is a penitence applicable in Keen. You could be shunted past a pile of teddybears if you fail to make the ridiculously difficult jump. Etc.
Simply losing progress on one puzzle within a level (missing a jump and having to start the puzzle over) rather than that one puzzle and all that came before it (missing a jump and dying) is a big deal--it is the biggest deal aside from a complete game over.
Within levels, the universal reward for skill or completing challenges is progress. This is either direct progress, being that much closer to the exit, or by indirectly making progress easier to obtain; for example, the reward could be shots to defeat enemies in an area that would otherwise have had to be dodged.
Points, and score by proxy, is not a universal reward; as has been discussed from time to time, some players just don't care about points and it is difficult to motivate them to be so.
Keys might be mentioned as a reward, but because of their basic function, allowing you to go from point A to point B, they qualify as either direct progress (the route to the exit) or easier progress (an easier route to the exit).
If the reward for completing puzzles and challenges in a level is progress or easier progress, the penalties for failed challenges are hindrance of progress or making progress more difficult.
The death penalty is the most severe penalty because instances where the player dies not only deny them progress in that instant (that particular puzzle/part of the level) but also all progress made beforehand in that level.
Keenrush's levels rely heavily on the death penalty, not exclusively, but consistently. Since he is someone who is repeatably able to alter how levels are played and beaten in new and fun ways, I'd personally like to see what new or reenvisioned old penalties he can come up with when he next changes how Keen is played.
Within levels, the universal reward for skill or completing challenges is progress. This is either direct progress, being that much closer to the exit, or by indirectly making progress easier to obtain; for example, the reward could be shots to defeat enemies in an area that would otherwise have had to be dodged.
Points, and score by proxy, is not a universal reward; as has been discussed from time to time, some players just don't care about points and it is difficult to motivate them to be so.
Keys might be mentioned as a reward, but because of their basic function, allowing you to go from point A to point B, they qualify as either direct progress (the route to the exit) or easier progress (an easier route to the exit).
If the reward for completing puzzles and challenges in a level is progress or easier progress, the penalties for failed challenges are hindrance of progress or making progress more difficult.
The death penalty is the most severe penalty because instances where the player dies not only deny them progress in that instant (that particular puzzle/part of the level) but also all progress made beforehand in that level.
Keenrush's levels rely heavily on the death penalty, not exclusively, but consistently. Since he is someone who is repeatably able to alter how levels are played and beaten in new and fun ways, I'd personally like to see what new or reenvisioned old penalties he can come up with when he next changes how Keen is played.