You obviously don't fully understand how the evil guys think. Robotnik and Mortimer is an impossible relationship. Robotnik is a pure evil leader who's only friends are dumb robots. Mortimer on the other hand is with an iq of 315 and is way too smart to work with such a smartass and obsessed looser like Robotnik. Mortimer is likely to work on his own.
As for keen, he works more undercover unlike sonic. If we equip him with speed shoes, that's no more keen. Keen is not as developed as a character as sonic. Sonic got tons of friends, so he wouldn't need keens help anyway.
A possible crossover of Commander Keen, and Sonic the Hedgeh
Actually if we look at this deeper then we get a very interesting scenario indeed.
Robotnik is not the problem here. If we look at the games and the Archie Comic Series (Oh AND all four cartoon series. Oh AND the movies...) then we see that Robotnik has no problem with partnering either as the superior or inferior member. He also doesn't mind if said partners are intelligent nanomachines or organic individuals. In the case of being the inferior partner there is often resentment on his part (as well as plans to overtake the superior partner as soon as possible.) But Robotnik would partner with Mortimer readily.
He's also an idiot. How many times has he been deceived by various individuals. And the flaws in his plans... If he made a video game it'd be Sonic 2006.
Mortimer is where the problem lies. He believes himself to be the big cheese, the greatest intellect in the universe, The One Above All. He most certainly wouldn't put himself under Robotnik in any sense. This gives us three possibilities:
1.) Mortimer 'partners' with Robotnik in the superior position. This could be via mind control or sheer force. (He has already controlled two worlds, Robotnik is still trying to conquer one.) In this situation we can expect much resentment from(a non-mind-controlled) Robotnik and for the alliance to break up as soon as Robotnik has the chance.
2.) Mortimer doesn't partner at all; he's just present in the same universe. He may be fighting Robotnik for something; steal his resources (E.g. using his robots for spare parts.) or maybe they would have an antagonistic relationship, ignoring each other in favor of attacking their enemies. (Or taking advantage of each others schemes.)
3.) Mortimer partners with Robotnik and does exactly what he says, BUT-
3a.) We never know it's Mortimer. Robotnik is partnered with some shadowy individual calling itself The prime Vorticon or Te Great Intelligence that supplies him with things but is otherwise not seen. Only at the very end, after everything falls apart do we see that the Giant Boss Machine has a message on it in a familiar galactic language...
3b.) Robotnik is defeated... (or succeeds!) and in this moment of triumph a shadow falls over the crowd as a gigantic craft hovers above... it's Mortimer in his secret attack ship! The whole Robotnik thing was just a distraction while he uses the planet's resources\nabbed the plot tokens\built his craft\etc! Now he is a force even more dangerous and utterly unfazed by the protagonists! We just entered overtime!
3c.) Robotnik is defeated and so is Mortimer. In fury Robotnik fires at the worthless child who let him down... and it parks and fumes, its robotic components revealed! It's an android duplicate! Mortimer wouldn't stoop to that level but he'd program something that would. And now a countdown begins, the duplicate is also a bomb!
So many possibilities!
Robotnik is not the problem here. If we look at the games and the Archie Comic Series (Oh AND all four cartoon series. Oh AND the movies...) then we see that Robotnik has no problem with partnering either as the superior or inferior member. He also doesn't mind if said partners are intelligent nanomachines or organic individuals. In the case of being the inferior partner there is often resentment on his part (as well as plans to overtake the superior partner as soon as possible.) But Robotnik would partner with Mortimer readily.
He's also an idiot. How many times has he been deceived by various individuals. And the flaws in his plans... If he made a video game it'd be Sonic 2006.
Mortimer is where the problem lies. He believes himself to be the big cheese, the greatest intellect in the universe, The One Above All. He most certainly wouldn't put himself under Robotnik in any sense. This gives us three possibilities:
1.) Mortimer 'partners' with Robotnik in the superior position. This could be via mind control or sheer force. (He has already controlled two worlds, Robotnik is still trying to conquer one.) In this situation we can expect much resentment from(a non-mind-controlled) Robotnik and for the alliance to break up as soon as Robotnik has the chance.
2.) Mortimer doesn't partner at all; he's just present in the same universe. He may be fighting Robotnik for something; steal his resources (E.g. using his robots for spare parts.) or maybe they would have an antagonistic relationship, ignoring each other in favor of attacking their enemies. (Or taking advantage of each others schemes.)
3.) Mortimer partners with Robotnik and does exactly what he says, BUT-
3a.) We never know it's Mortimer. Robotnik is partnered with some shadowy individual calling itself The prime Vorticon or Te Great Intelligence that supplies him with things but is otherwise not seen. Only at the very end, after everything falls apart do we see that the Giant Boss Machine has a message on it in a familiar galactic language...
3b.) Robotnik is defeated... (or succeeds!) and in this moment of triumph a shadow falls over the crowd as a gigantic craft hovers above... it's Mortimer in his secret attack ship! The whole Robotnik thing was just a distraction while he uses the planet's resources\nabbed the plot tokens\built his craft\etc! Now he is a force even more dangerous and utterly unfazed by the protagonists! We just entered overtime!
3c.) Robotnik is defeated and so is Mortimer. In fury Robotnik fires at the worthless child who let him down... and it parks and fumes, its robotic components revealed! It's an android duplicate! Mortimer wouldn't stoop to that level but he'd program something that would. And now a countdown begins, the duplicate is also a bomb!
So many possibilities!
What you really need, not what you think you ought to want.
Oh c'mon! Mortimer can eventually be interested in a collaboration with Robotnik up until Keen 2 or 3. But after that there's a big gap and Mortimer cannot fit in a Sonic universe PERIOD! I'll explain why.
No matter what a person Mortimer is, he made a machine to destroy an entire galaxy, while Robotnik is still chasing a hedgehog! Do you get the difference? At that point, Mortimer would be a human being from a Type III civilization, where this type of civilization can utilize and travel through a galactic, while the most Robotnik is capable of is making a gun to destroy only a planet (that is considered a Type I civilization level).
But Mortimer doesn't sop there. He knows how to destroy an entire universe, which means he's as smart or is actually from a civilization Type IV or even type V because only these type of civilizations can travel through the universe or through the multiverses.
Tell me, if you were Mortimer and you know how to destroy an entire universe, would you even consider talk to a primitive Type I human being as Robotnik or to anyone Type 0 in the Sonic universe? That said aliens from Type III+ civilizations wouldn't be interested in humans as they would see us as we see ants. If we put Mortimer in the Sonic universe, only his name will remain the same, everything else will be completely different. It will essentially be the same as if we take Superman and make him a regular and vulnerable guy. He wouldn't be superman anymore, would he?
No matter what a person Mortimer is, he made a machine to destroy an entire galaxy, while Robotnik is still chasing a hedgehog! Do you get the difference? At that point, Mortimer would be a human being from a Type III civilization, where this type of civilization can utilize and travel through a galactic, while the most Robotnik is capable of is making a gun to destroy only a planet (that is considered a Type I civilization level).
But Mortimer doesn't sop there. He knows how to destroy an entire universe, which means he's as smart or is actually from a civilization Type IV or even type V because only these type of civilizations can travel through the universe or through the multiverses.
Tell me, if you were Mortimer and you know how to destroy an entire universe, would you even consider talk to a primitive Type I human being as Robotnik or to anyone Type 0 in the Sonic universe? That said aliens from Type III+ civilizations wouldn't be interested in humans as they would see us as we see ants. If we put Mortimer in the Sonic universe, only his name will remain the same, everything else will be completely different. It will essentially be the same as if we take Superman and make him a regular and vulnerable guy. He wouldn't be superman anymore, would he?
Crossovers are serious business!Bernie wrote:wow you guys are sounding serious :/ i think a keen and sonic crossover would be kinda awkward, weird and just plain randoms. why?
how about a keen and gordon freeman/half-life crossover? or a keen and mario crossover?
Your argument makes several assumptions.Oh c'mon! Mortimer can eventually be interested in a collaboration with Robotnik up until Keen 2 or 3. But after that there's a big gap and Mortimer cannot fit in a Sonic universe PERIOD! I'll explain why.
Firstly you assume one individual is a civilization. You're assuming that should I go back in time I would somehow be able to marshal the powers of 20th century technology and rule the primitive world. (In reality I'm sabre snacks.)
Mortimer has a vast amount of knowledge, but even we humans know HOW to harness energy on a galactic scale; we simply don't have at present the resources and/or the time. If we had access to Type II technology (with a suitable interface we would not need to know how it worked.) we could well be able to turn it to harnessing energy on a galactic scale.
Thus we do not know Mortimer's resources. If he had access to another Type II or higher civilization he MIGHT not be interested in Type I. (Whatever they type you can bet he'd think of them as ' a primitive Type I'; to Mortimer there are two types, Type II, which is him and Type I, which is everyone else. [Type 0 is Keen.])
However if Mortimer doesn't have access to Type II resources (Quite possible, how many civilizations would be willing to end all existence?) then it is unlikely he will be able to build one from scratch. This would mean he would need to build up his resources via any means possible. (Starting with a new battleship made from recycled soda cans!)
Secondly we have the problem of whether Mortimer's weapons are really 'harnessing energy on x scale'; the definition given tends to assume the energy is being harnessed over the entire object (planet, star, galaxy...) and being used to serve the needs of that civilization, its maintenance and expansion. Mortimer's weapons are capable of 8destruction* on that scale but this is not necessarily harnessing. The Q.E.D. does not seem to require energy from the galaxy, a star or even a planet. (It's made by a drinks company! Think what Coke could do!) A nuclear bomb is not the same as a nuclear reactor.
It reminds me of THHGTG where the universe destroying weapon is the size of a cricket ball and it a 'junction box' that simply connects the cores of all stars. This is capable of universal destruction but cannot harness the energy of a small car. This raises the question of what type the Shikadi are, they're certainly not known very well and rather limited.
Thirdly your argument assumes that a civilization of a higher type would be totally uninterested in one of a lower type in all respects. Putting aside the intelligent creatures (which are likely to be the *least* interesting thing) the idea of scare resources comes into play. A civilization of any type may become a post scarcity economy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-scarcity_economy or it may not. It is possible for a lower type civilization to have resources of interest to a higher type. Be they utterly arbitrary (gold, artworks) or of practical value (a different form of intelligence that has produced a far more effective way of doing something.)
In this case the situation on Mobius may be of interest to Mortimer. The chaos emeralds for instance may provide an opportunity to construct a weapon for universal destruction in which case, (especially in combination with the limited resources idea above.) it would be necessary for him to intervene in Mobius' affairs.
Also:
You mean like is constantly done to avoid him being the invulnerable winner by default? That practically IS Superman.It will essentially be the same as if we take Superman and make him a regular and vulnerable guy. He wouldn't be superman anymore, would he?
But the analogy breaks down even aside from that. The central conceit of Superman (Aside from his moral purity) is that he's... SUPER. He is the epitome of great power and great responsibility. (Except in the new movie where he levels a city, doubtless killing thousands of people then snaps the bad guy's neck.) You don't go toe-to-toe with Superman because you will always lose. Instead you need a workaround. This could be magic or krpytonite, or (often) some moral problem.
Mortimer is not that. He is not an infinitely powerful lone force that you can never win against or whom must be morally broken or crippled with plot tokens.
Mortimer is the man behind the scenes, ominous and unknown, shadowy and mysterious. Always one step ahead of you he's never where you expect and even when you think you've pinned him down you haven't. Mortimer is the chessmasster (Maybe even a speed Xanatos one.) but he's also more.
He is but a simple human child, like Keen. Otherwise ordinary and mortal with the same foibles as all of us. We hear how he bullied Keen, how he gloats over a single IQ point. What is this but primitive and human? He is amazing because he has only one outstanding aspect, his intelligence. Take that away and he has nothing, he's just an ordinary, arrogant, immature, human kid.
Mortimer is Lex Luthor.
What you really need, not what you think you ought to want.
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VikingBoyBilly
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Not even Goku could beat Superman. But Batman beat superman, so... does that mean Batman can beat Goku?
Goku always beats Vegeta, who beat shadow, who beat mephiles, who KILLED Sonic, who beats Dr. Robotnik every time they come head to head.
So by that logic, Batman destroys Dr. Robotnik seven times over and is the most powerful guy in the universe, save the Grand Intellect himself.
Therefore Mortimer wants to team up with Batman.
Goku always beats Vegeta, who beat shadow, who beat mephiles, who KILLED Sonic, who beats Dr. Robotnik every time they come head to head.
So by that logic, Batman destroys Dr. Robotnik seven times over and is the most powerful guy in the universe, save the Grand Intellect himself.
Therefore Mortimer wants to team up with Batman.
"I don't trust players. Not one bit." - Levellass
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StupidBunny
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I APPROVE SOMEBODY MAKE IT HAPPENVikingBoyBilly wrote:Not even Goku could beat Superman. But Batman beat superman, so... does that mean Batman can beat Goku?
Goku always beats Vegeta, who beat shadow, who beat mephiles, who KILLED Sonic, who beats Dr. Robotnik every time they come head to head.
So by that logic, Batman destroys Dr. Robotnik seven times over and is the most powerful guy in the universe, save the Grand Intellect himself.
Therefore Mortimer wants to team up with Batman.
Ditto,StupidBunny wrote:I APPROVE SOMEBODY MAKE IT HAPPENVikingBoyBilly wrote:Not even Goku could beat Superman. But Batman beat superman, so... does that mean Batman can beat Goku?
Goku always beats Vegeta, who beat shadow, who beat mephiles, who KILLED Sonic, who beats Dr. Robotnik every time they come head to head.
So by that logic, Batman destroys Dr. Robotnik seven times over and is the most powerful guy in the universe, save the Grand Intellect himself.
Therefore Mortimer wants to team up with Batman.
although the Half Life/Keen crossover sounded pretty epic.
Young Billy Blaze joins the rebellion against the Combines at an early age, his inventions are instrumental in bringing about their downfall...
Most likely He would be teamed up with Dr. Kleiner
mortimermcmirestinks wrote: Now I wish MoffD wasn't allergic to me.
Levellass wrote:You're an evil man.
I can break a window with a brick, but salt water can break down a brick. Does that mean salt water can beat a window?Not even Goku could beat Superman. But Batman beat superman, so... does that mean Batman can beat Goku?
Goku always beats Vegeta, who beat shadow, who beat mephiles, who KILLED Sonic, who beats Dr. Robotnik every time they come head to head.
So by that logic, Batman destroys Dr. Robotnik seven times over and is the most powerful guy in the universe, save the Grand Intellect himself.
Therefore Mortimer wants to team up with Batman.
In the absence of power levels for all the mentioned characters there's no way to judge their respective rankings.
Also Batman was beaten by Squirrel Girl who was beaten by Hoppy The Marvel Bunny. (Granted he didn't beat her *physically*, but come on, she can talk to squirrels! Who could beat that?)
What you really need, not what you think you ought to want.
Robotnik is at a genius level as well...wiivn wrote:Robotnik is a pure evil leader who's only friends are dumb robots. Mortimer on the other hand is with an iq of 315 and is way too smart to work with such a smartass and obsessed looser like Robotnik. Mortimer is likely to work on his own.
Umm, no.... Robotnik wants global domination...Sonic only gets in the way. And in fact, after Sonic Colors, he might've wanted more interstellar domination, after he enslaved an entire alien race to power his theme park of destruction. Plus, he's capable of making stuff like the Death Egg (which is a giant spherical space station).wiivn wrote:No matter what a person Mortimer is, he made a machine to destroy an entire galaxy, while Robotnik is still chasing a hedgehog!
Not big things, just pointing out that Butt'nik deserves more credit than he seems to be given.
