What do you guys think is the best engine to use for making a keen galaxy mod?
They all have problems which is annoying. Keen 4 has smaller space for tiles than the other two; with Keen 5 you seem to not be able to include the Keen 5 exec with your download (but, really, how much in trouble would someone actually get if they did that?) and with Keen 6 theres no F1 initiated computerwrist section.
I wanna tinker around with making a mod but I'm not sure which engine to go with.
and also- do you guys recommend any other game engines? i know there are game making programs and engines like Gamemaker i think its called, but im always kinda weary of those things.
thanks.
Engines to use for making games/keen mods
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Plasma Captain
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With regards to Keen Galaxy, I kind of just figure that it's best to take into account what kinds of things are possible with enemies (AI, HP), game objectives, map elements, etc. My experience is very limited, though, so I won't be surprised if someone else offers conflicting advice.
Game Maker isn't really an engine, per se, it's an Integrated Development Environment. It offers its own programming language, which is C based, and which is pretty great for people who want to learn how to program games. Really, if you ignore the drag-and-drop stuff, and ignore all of the terrible games that have been made by people who took the name "Game Maker" to mean that no effort was needed, it's not a bad IDE. I've been able to replicate the engines of Super Bomberman 3/4 (sort of a combination) and The Legend of Zelda (NES) quite accurately with it in the past, so it's very capable and very versatile.
The problems with Game Maker are that it is also somewhat limiting in certain degrees, it doesn't offer as much freedom as regular programming languages do, it's not free to use, and it isn't really cross-platform (it sort of is, but it's limited, or at least it was the last time that I checked). However, I'm not going to knock on it too much. It's a good tool if it's placed in capable hands.
I would really recommend something like Java, C++, or C. I would personally use Java. If you're just looking for another, fully-developed game to hack, though, I can't really help.
Game Maker isn't really an engine, per se, it's an Integrated Development Environment. It offers its own programming language, which is C based, and which is pretty great for people who want to learn how to program games. Really, if you ignore the drag-and-drop stuff, and ignore all of the terrible games that have been made by people who took the name "Game Maker" to mean that no effort was needed, it's not a bad IDE. I've been able to replicate the engines of Super Bomberman 3/4 (sort of a combination) and The Legend of Zelda (NES) quite accurately with it in the past, so it's very capable and very versatile.
The problems with Game Maker are that it is also somewhat limiting in certain degrees, it doesn't offer as much freedom as regular programming languages do, it's not free to use, and it isn't really cross-platform (it sort of is, but it's limited, or at least it was the last time that I checked). However, I'm not going to knock on it too much. It's a good tool if it's placed in capable hands.
I would really recommend something like Java, C++, or C. I would personally use Java. If you're just looking for another, fully-developed game to hack, though, I can't really help.
It depends on what you want to do with the keen engine. It helps to have a mod concept before you pick the engine. Each engine has slight but crucial differences that will affect how a game is designed.
Keen 4 lacks many features of the other two galaxy engines, as it does not include basic things like world map teleporters, etc. However, it does offer the most variety in using text, and it has unique features such as swimming and the foot. From my experience with AR, Keen 4 has responded well to pushing the limits of what the Keen engine can do.
Keen 5 is fairly limiting in what you can do with text but does include world map features like teleporters/elevators. I've always thought of Keen 5 as the most solidly coded Keen game, and I think it lends itself well to gameplay variety. Keen 9 is a good example of what Keen 5 works well with.
Keen 6 is sort of a middle ground between Keen 4 and 5. It gives you some more features to work with on the world map and some options for text (think of the collectibles you need to get in Keen 6 to move through the world map). However, from my experience, Keen 6 seems the most limiting in terms of memory. From the times I've used Keen 6, it seems to not work well with large and expansive levels. Of all the Keen engines, I'd also say that Keen 6 is the most buggy (though Keen 4 has plenty of problems too).
Keen Dreams is a garbage engine and I would recommend steering clear of it. As for the Vorticons engine, I'm no expert on it, but I do think it works well with creating smaller, simpler games, often with a unique concept.
It's important to plan out things like game progression, enemy ideas, in-game story, and gameplay elements when choosing one of these engines. Ceilick's trilogy did a good job of this- each TUIT episode has good reasons for choosing the engine that it does.
I don't think Gamemaker is what you're looking for. With something like that, you'd have to code an engine mostly from scratch, and that's no easy feat. I've seen many, many people try to replicate the galaxy engine, but I've never seen anything that's a perfect replica. Even if you want to make something non-Keen related, it could take several years before you get anywhere with a project like that.
Keen 4 lacks many features of the other two galaxy engines, as it does not include basic things like world map teleporters, etc. However, it does offer the most variety in using text, and it has unique features such as swimming and the foot. From my experience with AR, Keen 4 has responded well to pushing the limits of what the Keen engine can do.
Keen 5 is fairly limiting in what you can do with text but does include world map features like teleporters/elevators. I've always thought of Keen 5 as the most solidly coded Keen game, and I think it lends itself well to gameplay variety. Keen 9 is a good example of what Keen 5 works well with.
Keen 6 is sort of a middle ground between Keen 4 and 5. It gives you some more features to work with on the world map and some options for text (think of the collectibles you need to get in Keen 6 to move through the world map). However, from my experience, Keen 6 seems the most limiting in terms of memory. From the times I've used Keen 6, it seems to not work well with large and expansive levels. Of all the Keen engines, I'd also say that Keen 6 is the most buggy (though Keen 4 has plenty of problems too).
Keen Dreams is a garbage engine and I would recommend steering clear of it. As for the Vorticons engine, I'm no expert on it, but I do think it works well with creating smaller, simpler games, often with a unique concept.
It's important to plan out things like game progression, enemy ideas, in-game story, and gameplay elements when choosing one of these engines. Ceilick's trilogy did a good job of this- each TUIT episode has good reasons for choosing the engine that it does.
I don't think Gamemaker is what you're looking for. With something like that, you'd have to code an engine mostly from scratch, and that's no easy feat. I've seen many, many people try to replicate the galaxy engine, but I've never seen anything that's a perfect replica. Even if you want to make something non-Keen related, it could take several years before you get anywhere with a project like that.
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troublesomekeen
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Keen Dreams!!!!
There's been many Keen games independent of the Keen engines. Bablet is making a Keen RPG, Thud made Commander Keen: Heroes Lost, DoomJedi and Dr.Kylstein BomberKeen, and of course the fantastic Keen Tower Defense, as well as a handful of other fangames. I've been dabbling in a turned-based, tactical, strategy engine for a little while, and it just dawned on me that perhaps I could make a Keen game out of it. The Keeniverse is so fleexible due to the large cast of colorful characters and creatures.
There's been many Keen games independent of the Keen engines. Bablet is making a Keen RPG, Thud made Commander Keen: Heroes Lost, DoomJedi and Dr.Kylstein BomberKeen, and of course the fantastic Keen Tower Defense, as well as a handful of other fangames. I've been dabbling in a turned-based, tactical, strategy engine for a little while, and it just dawned on me that perhaps I could make a Keen game out of it. The Keeniverse is so fleexible due to the large cast of colorful characters and creatures.
Commander Keen in... Canteloupe Quest!
It's possible to mod other game engines to be quite Keenish. Jazz Jackrabbit 1 for example is quite easy to keenify. I even had a Keen sprite replacement in the works but lost it in a computer crash.
All of the engines have their own plusses and minuses (Even Keen Dreams.) In the end modding Keen I think is not about freedom but limits; you have to work with what you're given.
I will note that Keen 1 lets you do 32 levels with different music for each level and 900 tiles for each level. That's a lot of potential.
All of the engines have their own plusses and minuses (Even Keen Dreams.) In the end modding Keen I think is not about freedom but limits; you have to work with what you're given.
I will note that Keen 1 lets you do 32 levels with different music for each level and 900 tiles for each level. That's a lot of potential.
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KeenEmpire
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thanks for all your suggestions everyone. i might try and work on a sequel to my mod i made, not sure if i'd finish it but if i were i'd wanna do it quite quick. so i wouldnt do it in some other game engine. i thought maybe those Gamemaker things would be easy to use but it looks like you need to have some good experience in it to make something good (which one of you guys said). so, it might be best i stick with one of the keen galaxy engines.
so Keen 6 is crummy in the memory department ay?
maybe i should do it in Keen 5 but, like i asked, is it really much of a big deal if it comes with the keen5e.exe file? i hate the idea that the user would have to get their own keen 5 exe, like with the 'battle of the brains' TUIT mod. (the whole thing is stupid anyway- i came across a download of keen 5 in about a minute of Googling).
yeah you and some other peeps once told me about things the vorticon engine does better than the galaxy engine- but i can't shake the fact that vorticon mods just look and seem so much older than galaxy ones. the sound effects are still PC speaker aren't they?Levellass wrote:I will note that Keen 1 lets you do 32 levels with different music for each level and 900 tiles for each level. That's a lot of potential.
so Keen 6 is crummy in the memory department ay?
maybe i should do it in Keen 5 but, like i asked, is it really much of a big deal if it comes with the keen5e.exe file? i hate the idea that the user would have to get their own keen 5 exe, like with the 'battle of the brains' TUIT mod. (the whole thing is stupid anyway- i came across a download of keen 5 in about a minute of Googling).
How come nobody suggested keengine? You can go with keengine without any tileset, color, sprites, music, sound or level limitations, but you can go as far as making a standard mod with limited enemies and stuff, unless you create them yourself. It's limited because not all keen features are present (for instance there isn't world map teleport or only some enemies are implemented). Unless you're familiar with blitzbasic or lua script, then you can create whatever you want and build on the most solid keen engine created so far.
Whaaaatand of course the fantastic Keen Tower Defense
i had a try of a test for a mod for the keengine and some things about it i love. wav music? paralax background scrolling? yes!!wiivn wrote:Unless you're familiar with blitzbasic or lua script, then you can create whatever you want and build on the most solid keen engine created so far.
the only issue is, how much would i actually be able to edit? and the controls are quite annoying (hopefully they'll fix that up). plus i dont know that blitzbasic and stuff you mention so i dont want to spend a whole bunch of time learning some new form of patching (unless its easy enough).