Emailing Id Software About My Mod; getting it released

[szemi]

Wait! If I want to sell my Martinez 1-3 trilogy - and they say "yes" - then how can I sell it?

None of you should be getting any hopes up.

I'm guessing that they would demand copyright assignment for any of the ones they decide to publish, and use C&D's on existing work to pressure you into doing so. Afterwards, you wouldn't even be allowed to use your own characters in further work.

Remember: businesses don't do things out of the goodness of their heart. If you have leverage (your future games are going to make them millions) you could start to negotiate better deals.. preferably with a lawyer. If you don't (which none of us certainly have) but have a somewhat milkable product anyway, they'll just take you for all you're worth. In this case, the best you can really hope for is that they'd just ignore your letter.

If you want a sellable mod, your best course of action is probably to use Commander Genius as a base, strip out all references to Keen, and publish it independently.

Oh, Commander Genius! Man, you are Genius! And yeah, it's their game and I respect copyright.

[Bernie]

thanks wiivn for your altered letter. its better in certain ways. anyone else have any changes to make to it??

My advise is to be more sure of what you want. I've made a few corrections.

i understand what you mean, but i do want to sound as if im quite flexible with what I could do with this. If they dont think they could sell it somehow, then maybe they could include it in some sort of game pack they'll release, or just as a free download on their site even. I'm basically just gonna flog my mod any which way.

I'm guessing that they would demand copyright assignment for any of the ones they decide to publish, and use C&D's on existing work to pressure you into doing so.

heh, im not sure what you mean by all that. whats copyright assignment?

So, to conclude, I want to point out that there is still some risk with sending such a mail (see the above quote), so it may actually be better to give up.

hehe, thats no way to live life, friend well i dont think its that much of a big deal. if they simply say 'no', then so be it. i wont do anything with it then.

we should first insist talking with someone in the higher hierarchy and not to some employee

hmm, probly the best way to do that is to talk to them personally, over the phone or if possible, in person. i live across the pacific ocean so, forget that for me anyway. i really dont know how to do that in an email though. just type something like 'I request this email to be sent to so-and-so'?. i dont know.

There's a 99% chance that they won't let you because it's their game you've modded

yeah but the point is, they'll get a cut of whatever it makes. the ball is really in their court so they'll probly ask for *at least* a 50/50 share.

but look, im well aware actually making money from a mod of a very old game is pretty unlikely. but i wouldnt mind if they just had it on their site or... whatever. just to do something with it.

best course of action is probably to use Commander Genius as a base

huh, i never actually checked that out yet.

[Gridlock]

I suppose someone could always ask Tom Hall for his advice. He probably has some knowledge about how this sort of thing works. I agree with others here, though, that the chances of this working in our favor are very low.

[KeenEmpire]

And yeah, it's their game and I respect copyright.

That's not even what I'm saying. A derivative is not "their" game, only derived from their game. You may not have the right to distribute their game, but you have the right to distribute your changes - that's what makes mods legal in the first place.

But, if you're successful in convincing them they'd make money over your mod, they'll almost certainly demand you transfer the copyright to your content over to them as well. You'd lose all distributing rights (someone asks for your mod here? Nope, buy it from id software), as well as the right to reuse any of your own characters.

And if you disagree? They're the ones with an army of lawyers. You can get screwed over by a C&D regardless of whether it's valid (copyright is notorious for being abused in this manner - 37% of takedown requests, according to google). Even worse: if you're really successful in convincing them mods are a profitable business, the rest of us could become targets as well.

I am not a lawyer, and nothing I say is legal advice.

yeah but the point is, they'll get a cut of whatever it makes. the ball is really in their court so they'll probly ask for *at least* a 50/50 share.

but look, im well aware actually making money from a mod of a very old game is pretty unlikely. but i wouldnt mind if they just had it on their site or... whatever. just to do something with it.

tldr: If you do convince them, the rewards range from miniscule/negative (you won't realistically get more than pennies per copy, and at the cost of losing all rights) to community-destroying. If you don't convince them, nothing happens.

When them ignoring you is the best possible result in a negotiation, you know you've picked a bad fight.

[MoffD]

I'm afraid KeenEmpire's right.

If it was Tom Hall I could see this working, but ID will just want the money/license if it looks promising enough.

Very slight chance of it working how you want

[Roobar]

Well, we can complain all day long and we can add 100+ more reasons why not doing this. But this is not helping. Disbelief and fear is what is stopping everyone in succeeding. Either we unite and support this cause until we succeed or abandon it right now, lock it, smash it and burn it to hell before it's even started!

[Bernie]

jeez. this all is sounding really bleak :/

what if i specifically ask them in the email (or perhaps in a subsequent email, if they successfully reply to the first) what will be the worst case scenario if we go ahead? try to get as much information as possible before dedicating to anything?

and this is all IF i somehow get this sold in some way. like i said a million times, i doubt that'll happen anyway. its a mod of a shareware game, im sure they wouldn't care if it gets released freely somewhere (but again, best to check with them I suppose- even though many games have many mods out there that gets circulated around).

[NY00123]

Well, two more points:

1. Maybe someone else has referred to that, but it probably worths to emphasize this. Not only is any possible Keen related project of yours under a risk once you send such an e-mail, but also any other Keen related project; Or at least any such project referenced from these forums and related websites. It is still the case that I am not the one to decide and anybody may send such a mail, though.

2. Just in case you have not yet read this, you may check out some (very) recent news regarding John Carmack, Matt Hooper and Oculus VR online.

[Bernie]

Not only is any possible Keen related project of yours under a risk once you send such an e-mail, but also any other Keen related project

i doubt that. stop scaring me im sure just simply asking them about these things won't be a big deal to them. its simply just an inquiry email (if i were to type something like "I'm definitely going to sell this mod, fullstop" then sure they'll probly get all cease and desist on me.)

also- i remember, many years ago, you could buy CDs full of mods for the game Doom. I wonder how that worked out? if Id got a cut of that or what.

But, if you're successful in convincing them they'd make money over your mod, they'll almost certainly demand you transfer the copyright to your content over to them as well. You'd lose all distributing rights (someone asks for your mod here? Nope, buy it from id software), as well as the right to reuse any of your own characters.

tsk, good point.

[NY00123]

im sure just simply asking them about these things won't be a big deal to them. its simply just an inquiry email (if i were to type something like "I'm definitely going to sell this mod, fullstop" then sure they'll probly get all cease and desist on me.)

Well, such a formulation can have a very different meaning, indeed. I still wanted to inform of the possible risks, just in case.

also- i remember, many years ago, you could buy CDs full of mods for the game Doom. I wonder how that worked out? if Id got a cut of that or what.

Unless it is any known thing (like "Master Levels for Doom II" or the "Id anthology"), chances are that these CDs are not legit. *Although* it's true that back in the day (well the second half of the 90s), CDs were often used for distributing shareware games, rather than the internet as done later. So that may be some kind of a similar case.

Still, one great difference is that support for Doom mods was official when the original game was out, at least up to the level of modding it supported. Furthermore, the (sort of "officially endorsed") modding capabilities have clearly grown since the (official) release of the Doom source code (actually a first such release of Doom sources IIRC).

[Bernie]

hey gang- i went to the Id Software site (www.idsoftware.com) and i went to the 'contact us' section, and it goes to something called 'zenimax media', and you can only email them, it seems. does anyone know what thats all about? did 'Zenimex' buy Id software or something?

[KeenEmpire]

A quick glance at the wikipedia article tells us yes: ZeniMax (some bigshot $1.2 bil company) acquired id software a while back. This was one of the reasons for my pessimism.

[Roobar]

Yeah, Zenimax bought id simply because id wasn't that good anymore in publishing. BUT. If you look in Steam, it says Developer: id Software Publisher: id Software! So they are actually still selling Commander Keen themselves.

Look. You can take a shot. Go to http://www.zenimax.com/contact.php and fill out the form. Write something like this:

---

Dear all,

My name is Bernie DeWint and I am a big fan of id Software games. I have an interesting proposition for you regarding an old id Software game franchise that can be profitable for you. Please let me know who I can contact, so I can explain in details my ideas. Thank you.

Best regards,

---

They might respond something like "No, we're not interested." or "If that's regarding mods, you bear in mind that we don't tolerate this" or whatever. Then, BANG! You sent your ideas. I'd go with the idea of including this into Steam Commander Keen Complete Pack. Show commitment and creative energy. Nobody will run away if you convince them that they can actually profit from this. But regarding CK franchise, they might advise you to ask id Software themselves, which will be great.

Visualize what you have in mind. Something like this:

[Bernie]

hey thanks a lot for that mockup pic wiivn looks cool.

Look, I'll try sending a message to ZeniMax and basically saying what you wrote there wiivn. I think its a good enough start. If I don't get a reply, or they say just 'no' or something, I can always try again later with a better pitch (or even just flood them with all the info).

btw wiivn, you have now been drafted as my business consultant welcome aboard.

PS check out the board of directors for ZeniMax wow. no sh*t these guys bought out Id.

[Levellass]

There's always a bigger Dopefish.