Where are the Galaxy mods?

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Tormentor667
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Where are the Galaxy mods?

Post by Tormentor667 » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:48

Out of curiosity, now that Abiathar is released for a while and being (really) the superior Keen Galaxy editor, where are the hundreds and thousands of mods people develop? I mean, it's so easy to work on this now, why isn't there more progress and interest?

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Post by mortimer » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:07

When's your mod being released then? :P
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Nospike
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Post by Nospike » Fri Jan 09, 2015 14:35

Stuck in non-level-editing-related development hell. :bloody
It just might be done someday. The chance is always there.

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Post by Commander Spleen » Fri Jan 09, 2015 14:39

Keen 1 ftw

Actually, considering the amount of work involved in producing a full, high quality Galaxy mod, I'm surprised by the amount that have been released to date.

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Post by VikingBoyBilly » Fri Jan 09, 2015 15:26

I'm involved in some galaxy mods that have been left on the backburner, and considering the amount of work involved, I imagine it's the same story for everyone else.
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Post by Gridlock » Fri Jan 09, 2015 19:05

This spring, Atroxian Realm will have been in development for five years. Galaxy mods generally take a long time and can be very difficult to make. Very people have the time, resources, and skill to finish them.

If you don't believe me, think of this: Keen 4 has about 520 image files for story pictures and sprites, as well as a 288x1152 background tiles file and a 288x2592 foreground tiles file. That's a ridiculous amount of images to deal with, depending on the mod's scope, and that's only the graphics side. For complex mods, think of all the patching that goes in. Only a few individuals on this forum are even capable of writing patches. And once that's done, you still have to design and playtest lots of levels. Top it off with a lot of other small but challenging tasks that have to be completed like the help screen, ending, scrolling story, etc.

Unfortunately, Galaxy modding is too much trouble for most people. Having better tools helps, but it doesn't change the underlying challenge of modding. Believe me, I want to see more mods too.
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Atroxian Realm: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3536
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Post by StupidBunny » Fri Jan 09, 2015 20:46

I feel like I need to make a limited-scale test mod or something to get the hang of all the tools and making them work...my previous Galaxy projects have all gotten hung up in the early stages because the tools and processes for making them are so different from the ones for Vorticons mods (and, indeed, more complicated.) Of course my first Galaxy mod was started around 2003-4 before all these shiny easier-to-use non-DOS editors existed, so there was that too.
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Post by Benvolio » Sat Jan 10, 2015 19:36

I have totally lost touch with the progress in Galaxy modding... just out of interest, can someone please estimate for me what percentage of the effort a full-fledged Keen4 mod would have taken in 2005, would it take in 2015?

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Post by KeenRush » Sat Jan 10, 2015 22:28

Commander Spleen wrote:Keen 1 ftw
Seconding this. :)

Benvolio: I think it hasn't changed much. The only difference is the level editing, and even that depends on the user. Some people cope just fine with the oldest, least functional editors. Everything else is about the same. Sure, there are many new patches and people might find advanced patching help (levellass) but the biggest challenge (in my eyes) is the huge amount of graphics that the modder needs to make and nothing will help at that. On the contrary, the envelope has been pushed so ridicously high that it takes 25 years for a normal person to learn to work at that level.
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Post by troublesomekeen » Sat Jan 10, 2015 23:09

Benvolio wrote:I have totally lost touch with the progress in Galaxy modding... just out of interest, can someone please estimate for me what percentage of the effort a full-fledged Keen4 mod would have taken in 2005, would it take in 2015?
I don't see what the difference is. We do have newer and better tools now, but you still have to draw all the graphics, think up all the ideas, design all the levels, compose all the music, figure out all the patches... Abiathar doesn't make levels for you. Wait a second. Is this a trick question?
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Post by Benvolio » Sun Jan 11, 2015 0:24

I take your point, as it is, indeed, salient. But I think a lot of the hassle I had when I tried to make a Keen4 mod was actually to do with technical difficulties - getting levels to work, getting demos to work, getting the finale to work, getting hit-boxes to work etc... maybe I just wasn't trying hard enough, but I just think Keen1 modding poses virtually no technical hiccups when done properly.

Although the mods with the most out-there ideas are generally Keen1 ones, the magnitude of the Keen4 projects and the beauty of their polished finesse is something that gets a lot of respect from me. I really want to play Atroxian Realm!!!!!

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Post by Ceilick » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:02

The reason we're not floating on Galaxy mods is that amount of content it takes to create one and that few people are actually driven toward committing to that or simply don't have time.

Troublesomekeen is correct I think, that the awesome new tools haven't really changed the amount of work a Keen Galaxy mod takes. Although, my perspective is that people think it takes far more work than it actually does. Still, a 'typical' Keen 1-3 mod will always be easier due to a straightforward engine and less content.

But I think we are, for the most part, beyond the trial and error method of making a typical Keen Galaxy mod; we have members of the community with accessible information, we have forum topics and wiki articles and tutorials.

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Post by Nospike » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:58

Pretty much what Ceilick said. Making Galaxy mods still requires almost the same amount of work. The real change is that you now have a lot more creative freedom thanks to the vastly higher number of known patches.
It just might be done someday. The chance is always there.

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Post by Commander Spleen » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:21

Nospike wrote:The real change is that you now have a lot more indecisive procrastination thanks to the vastly higher number of known patches.

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Post by elecdude33 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 14:29

Commander Spleen wrote:
Nospike wrote:The real change is that you now have a lot more indecisive procrastination thanks to the vastly higher number of known patches.
To be fair, indecision caused by a large number of available patches can apply to Vorticons modding too

But yeah, I think there's really no getting around the fact that making all the new graphics, among other things, required for a Galaxy mod is always going to be quite a lot of work

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