Where are the Galaxy mods?
- Tormentor667
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Where are the Galaxy mods?
Out of curiosity, now that Abiathar is released for a while and being (really) the superior Keen Galaxy editor, where are the hundreds and thousands of mods people develop? I mean, it's so easy to work on this now, why isn't there more progress and interest?
- Commander Spleen
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- VikingBoyBilly
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This spring, Atroxian Realm will have been in development for five years. Galaxy mods generally take a long time and can be very difficult to make. Very people have the time, resources, and skill to finish them.
If you don't believe me, think of this: Keen 4 has about 520 image files for story pictures and sprites, as well as a 288x1152 background tiles file and a 288x2592 foreground tiles file. That's a ridiculous amount of images to deal with, depending on the mod's scope, and that's only the graphics side. For complex mods, think of all the patching that goes in. Only a few individuals on this forum are even capable of writing patches. And once that's done, you still have to design and playtest lots of levels. Top it off with a lot of other small but challenging tasks that have to be completed like the help screen, ending, scrolling story, etc.
Unfortunately, Galaxy modding is too much trouble for most people. Having better tools helps, but it doesn't change the underlying challenge of modding. Believe me, I want to see more mods too.
If you don't believe me, think of this: Keen 4 has about 520 image files for story pictures and sprites, as well as a 288x1152 background tiles file and a 288x2592 foreground tiles file. That's a ridiculous amount of images to deal with, depending on the mod's scope, and that's only the graphics side. For complex mods, think of all the patching that goes in. Only a few individuals on this forum are even capable of writing patches. And once that's done, you still have to design and playtest lots of levels. Top it off with a lot of other small but challenging tasks that have to be completed like the help screen, ending, scrolling story, etc.
Unfortunately, Galaxy modding is too much trouble for most people. Having better tools helps, but it doesn't change the underlying challenge of modding. Believe me, I want to see more mods too.
Armageddon Begins Again. The Alphamatic has arrived.
Atroxian Realm: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3536
The Alphamatic: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4086
- StupidBunny
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I feel like I need to make a limited-scale test mod or something to get the hang of all the tools and making them work...my previous Galaxy projects have all gotten hung up in the early stages because the tools and processes for making them are so different from the ones for Vorticons mods (and, indeed, more complicated.) Of course my first Galaxy mod was started around 2003-4 before all these shiny easier-to-use non-DOS editors existed, so there was that too.
Seconding this.Commander Spleen wrote:Keen 1 ftw
Benvolio: I think it hasn't changed much. The only difference is the level editing, and even that depends on the user. Some people cope just fine with the oldest, least functional editors. Everything else is about the same. Sure, there are many new patches and people might find advanced patching help (levellass) but the biggest challenge (in my eyes) is the huge amount of graphics that the modder needs to make and nothing will help at that. On the contrary, the envelope has been pushed so ridicously high that it takes 25 years for a normal person to learn to work at that level.
My newest mod - Commander Keen: Sunset: viewtopic.php?t=8568 | codename H.Y.E.N.A.
- troublesomekeen
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I don't see what the difference is. We do have newer and better tools now, but you still have to draw all the graphics, think up all the ideas, design all the levels, compose all the music, figure out all the patches... Abiathar doesn't make levels for you. Wait a second. Is this a trick question?Benvolio wrote:I have totally lost touch with the progress in Galaxy modding... just out of interest, can someone please estimate for me what percentage of the effort a full-fledged Keen4 mod would have taken in 2005, would it take in 2015?
Commander Keen in... Canteloupe Quest!
I take your point, as it is, indeed, salient. But I think a lot of the hassle I had when I tried to make a Keen4 mod was actually to do with technical difficulties - getting levels to work, getting demos to work, getting the finale to work, getting hit-boxes to work etc... maybe I just wasn't trying hard enough, but I just think Keen1 modding poses virtually no technical hiccups when done properly.
Although the mods with the most out-there ideas are generally Keen1 ones, the magnitude of the Keen4 projects and the beauty of their polished finesse is something that gets a lot of respect from me. I really want to play Atroxian Realm!!!!!
Although the mods with the most out-there ideas are generally Keen1 ones, the magnitude of the Keen4 projects and the beauty of their polished finesse is something that gets a lot of respect from me. I really want to play Atroxian Realm!!!!!
The reason we're not floating on Galaxy mods is that amount of content it takes to create one and that few people are actually driven toward committing to that or simply don't have time.
Troublesomekeen is correct I think, that the awesome new tools haven't really changed the amount of work a Keen Galaxy mod takes. Although, my perspective is that people think it takes far more work than it actually does. Still, a 'typical' Keen 1-3 mod will always be easier due to a straightforward engine and less content.
But I think we are, for the most part, beyond the trial and error method of making a typical Keen Galaxy mod; we have members of the community with accessible information, we have forum topics and wiki articles and tutorials.
Troublesomekeen is correct I think, that the awesome new tools haven't really changed the amount of work a Keen Galaxy mod takes. Although, my perspective is that people think it takes far more work than it actually does. Still, a 'typical' Keen 1-3 mod will always be easier due to a straightforward engine and less content.
But I think we are, for the most part, beyond the trial and error method of making a typical Keen Galaxy mod; we have members of the community with accessible information, we have forum topics and wiki articles and tutorials.
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To be fair, indecision caused by a large number of available patches can apply to Vorticons modding tooCommander Spleen wrote:Nospike wrote:The real change is that you now have a lot more indecisive procrastination thanks to the vastly higher number of known patches.
But yeah, I think there's really no getting around the fact that making all the new graphics, among other things, required for a Galaxy mod is always going to be quite a lot of work