Public Commander Keen Forum

2D or 3D?
Health bar or one-hit-deaths?
New power-ups other than the ankh?
New weapons other than the neural stunner?
New equipment other than the pogo stick?
Alternate costumes, w/ possible effects?
Multiple playable characters or just Keen?
Vehicle travel between worlds, maybe?
Over-world map or no?
Non-hostile locations (ie, cities with NPCs and shopkeepers) or no?
RPG-elements?

Apologies if this has already been discussed to death. Just wondering what others think since I got to thinking about this myself the other day and I realized I'm not sure how a Keen game would work if an all-new one were released today. I feel like an important part of what made the old games so great was the very fact that they were so "limited" in the scope of their design. Not that I think they're bad games by any means, just that they were fairly simple: Keen runs at a single rate of speed, jumps, pogo sticks, wields a single weapon and dies in a single hit. To expand on those things too much would be to lose the essence of what makes a Keen game, would it not? For example, if Keen had a health bar and health pickups scattered throughout the level, I'm quite certain that would eliminate a lot of the tension -- part of the fun -- players feel while making their way through the game, particularly during longer/bigger levels like Red Maze City.

Thoughts:

* 3D, as Tom intended.
* Probably some sort of health system, as a 3D platformer. Either a stock 4 units or items that you have to hold on to (like Sonic/Croc).
* I imagine there could be new power-ups, haven't thought about it though.
* Just the neural stunner. Maybe it could be set to varying degrees, like it is in the backstory to Keen Dreams; higher settings would deal more damage but deplete more ammo.
* Just the pogo stick. With a new 3D engine, new tricks for the pogo stick could be implemented in lieu of adding new equipment.
* Only Keen should be playable; I feel it would lose something significantly if new playable characters were to be introduced.
* If there is vehicle travel, I imagine it would be in the form of a scrolling shooter, maybe side view or first/third person.
* An overworld makes sense. Like Mario 64 or Donkey Kong 64, things like that. I think that was probably what it would have ended up like if it had actually been produced in 3D, back in the day.
* Not sure about towns.
* RPG elements aren't really necessary, Keen doesn't need stats. Physically, he's an ordinary boy, his weapon only relies on the aim of the player. The spirit of the game is more about exploration and problem solving. A new installment would do well to introduce more puzzle elements instead.

King_Gargs_Revenge wrote:2D or 3D?
Health bar or one-hit-deaths?
New power-ups other than the ankh?
New weapons other than the neural stunner?
New equipment other than the pogo stick?
Alternate costumes, w/ possible effects?
Multiple playable characters or just Keen?
Vehicle travel between worlds, maybe?
Over-world map or no?
Non-hostile locations (ie, cities with NPCs and shopkeepers) or no?
RPG-elements?

1) Either 3D or 2.5D, similar to the Unity game Ronnie worked on a while ago.
2) I lean towards one hit deaths. Super Mario Bros. still uses a one hit death mechanic and it's a very old franchise now.
3) Maybe a super armour this lets Keen take a couple of hits before death, or a Mega Blaster that zaps weak enemies and stuns stronger enemies.
4) Nah, the Neural Stunner is a good weapon to stick with.
5) No.
6) Not unless the costume changes are contextual to the story.
7) I don't think Keen has very many friends that can help in a game, so no.
8] Only for the secret level!
9) Again, not unless an overworld is contextual to the story.
10) How would they work? I don't think non hostile levels are good unless we can answer that question.
11) No, I don't really see how RPG elements can be implemented in a game like Keen.

chrissifniotis wrote:9) Again, not unless an overworld is contextual to the story.

Every Keen game has an overworld...

I'm gonna be 100% honest, I totally would be okay with a Keen RPG.

Old arcade style: "INSERT COIN"

A: 2,5D like Galaxy, but layered background
B: Should be Depending on difficulty setting
C: a upgrade to the Pogo-stick, so it can stun enemies if you hit them from above from great height
D: Maybe a trow able Capture device for something needs to be Captures. or a weapon powerful enough to fully stun a tougher enemy, but have a charge up before it can fire (like the BFG9k from Doom)
E: maybe a Grapple-hook gun?, or some other utility like the Wet suit.
F: Some cosmetics wont hurt, like the ability to chose your helmet, Shirt, Pants. design and color
G: Multiple, with the option to mod in more.
H: BwB-Mega-rocket, is already used between episodes ;p
I: World map, maybe a few level 2 part levels.
J: You don't need RPG elements to Role Play.
K: Sure a Quest hub to replay completed levels with a new goals, i don't know about venders though.

The Question is also what you Define as RPG: Item Upgrades and gear progression?
or actually role-playing as in you role-playing the Character/avatar
But the endgame of all Gear Progression Games is pretty much: having your character Looking Awesome and stunning!
aka Kicking Butt, dodging Fire and looking awesome while doing it!


Some other Additions could be:
Co-Op, the option to play with 1-3 friends (Local and Online), - some level recommend to be played with 2 or more (or alone if your good enough to you take on the challenge alone)

a in level Map, that gets generated as you explore the maps.

easier Moddability (Steam workshop etc)

Zilem wrote:A: 2,5D like Galaxy, but layered background

I'd love to see Keen within layered surroundings / moving background / interactive scenes. This would be a nice development. In some sense kind-a-like this Heart of Darkness mod by DrColossus.

Zilem wrote: F: Some cosmetics wont hurt, like the ability to chose your helmet, Shirt, Pants. design and color

what about this: Depending on the immediate vicinity I would love to see an alternate sprite for Keen where his colours are darker, or the contrast is stronger, so he would just fit better with the environment.

I want 256 color graphics and smooth parallax scrolling. And no jerky camera.

Nospike wrote:I want 256 color graphics and smooth parallax scrolling. And no jerky camera.

Ah, the original TUIT.

Yorps. I just think we need more of them, that's all.

I'd definitely want them to keep it 'simple': one gun, one speed, on pogo, etc. That is the elemental thing in these games that is so well done, in my opinion.

I would like graphics with a limited palette. If it's 3D, then make it low-poly and 90s looking.

And keep the character skin albino. I think the somewhat alien/eerie look befits the character.

Not necessarily low-poly, but definitely minimalistic, bright, cartoony palette.

Simplicity is definitely important pretty much across the board, but there would need to be a lot of depth in defining the locale and its inhabitants (leaving some mystery). There would probably be room for more emphasis on plot details, but again, some mystery and room for interpretation should be upheld. The adventure should be a personal experience to the player, not forcefed through cut scenes and lengthy dialogues. It should all link in with the existing Keeniverse, but each environment should stand alone as a unique experience.

Level design is where I could mainly see a modern Keen game falling short. Especially if it is 3D or designed for consoles. Keen levels tend to have a great flow, lots of exploration and plenty of intricacy. If it gets stuck on the technical side of a 3rd person floating camera engine, things would likely become much more linear and obvious. Not to mention flat--the vertical aspect of Keen's levels are part of what has defined it. Unlike Mario which was always a fairly standard left-to-right affair, so newer games could be more lazy with their layouts (not that I've actually played any, just seen them in action).

Commander Spleen wrote:Not necessarily low-poly, but definitely minimalistic, bright, cartoony palette.


Level design is where I could mainly see a modern Keen game falling short. Especially if it is 3D or designed for consoles.

Yeah, the geometry of three dimensions could make things problematic. Large, flat planes would not really be good for a keen game, because they just give too much area for the player to work with.


I think the best use of three-dimensions would be to design the game on a series of rails, so that most of the action happens along two-dimensions at any given time, but you can rotate into a new rail at certain nodes. Sort of like Fez, but not requiring such frequent rotation of the camera to solve puzzles.

I would do it the Crash Bandicoot way. Different levels with different ways of the camera; some levels it moves after you and you can move in four directions (although still following a set path), some levels it stays on the side and it's like 2D platformer. And more would be possible. Etc.