Semantic KeenWiki

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Malvineous
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Semantic KeenWiki

Post by Malvineous » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:25

As mentioned in the other thread, I have been planning to install Semantic MediaWiki on the KeenWiki to provide more functionality and also make future upgrades easier.

This has now been done, and I've updated the pictorial mod lists to use the new functions.

This has revealed some inconsistencies in the data, so if anyone has a few spare moments to help clean things up that would be most helpful!

Firstly, Semantic MediaWiki (SMW) is much more strict about the values you can put into data, so for instance the "Has new graphics?" option in the mod infobox is a yes/no value, but a few mods have the word "some" in here, which is not allowed. Now we could either change the "property" so that instead of a boolean yes/no it allows a number of set values (like None, Some, All, etc.) or we could change the infoboxes for each mod so that they only say yes or no, and values like "some" are no longer used.

I'm open to suggestions on what the best solution is for things like this, however the way it is now, only yes/no values are permitted so all those mods that have "some" new graphics are showing up with a blank value in the pictorial mod list (and a little warning icon in the infobox.)

Secondly, I'd like to replace the tabular Vorticons/Galaxy mod lists with the same SMW queries that populate the pictorial lists. This means that the information only needs to be stored and updated in one place (the mod's infobox) and it will be repeated automatically in the tables. I've made a start on this.

However the tables have additional information, such as the mod's protagonist, that is not currently stored in the infobox. So in order for this to work, we'll need to update each mod's infobox with this information, so that it is available when the new tables are being generated automatically. I've added a new infobox property for some of these values, so help with moving them from the tables into the infoboxes would be much appreciated! I've created a data quality page that lists all the articles that have issues, so feel free to start there (bearing in mind a lot of pages are in that list because they have NewGfx=Some, so we should decide what to do there first.) If you spot any patterns let me or one of the admins know as we might be able to do a bulk change with MassEditRegex to save some time. I've already done a few bulk changes to get the most obvious things updated.

I hope this makes sense!

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Re: Semantic KeenWiki

Post by Roobar » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:23

If you ask me, a simple "yes" or "no" works just fine. However, we're in the 21st century, so you need to add more options like: "some", "just a few", "many", "dozen", "a lot", "a ton", "kinda", "probably", "I'm not sure", "why do you ask?", "find yourself", "potato", "it's complicated" etc.

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Re: Semantic KeenWiki

Post by Malvineous » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:52

Now I want to change it to just Yes, No and Potato.

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Re: Semantic KeenWiki

Post by nanomekia » Sun Dec 10, 2017 16:44

You have my vote for Potato.
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Re: Semantic KeenWiki

Post by Nisaba » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:51

just real quick (cause I'm in a hustle). Real great work! :dopefish the updates are convincing. a lot of work to do, isn't it?! I'm happy to help where I can, but unfortunately not before Saturday. I'll get back to you ASAP.

EDIT:
To add the MyMods Template to the user-pages is an brilliant idea. next to those mods we have a huge list of program and tools made by the community members. maybe a similar Template could get generated to gather those kind of info on the user pages as well.
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Re: Semantic KeenWiki

Post by Nisaba » Wed Dec 13, 2017 14:13

ah, the #ask parser function is cleverly done.
but I sense an issue here. some of the level packs feature minimal graphic tweaks... meaning: choosing between binary options (true/false) might not be adequate for this kind of tasks.

Code: Select all

{{#ask:
 [[Category:Keen 1 mods || Keen 2 mods || Keen 3 mods]]
 [[Has new graphics::false]]
 [[Has new levels::true]]
 [[Number of levels::>3]] <!-- Beware '>' means '>=' -->
.
.
.}}
(my vote for Potato)
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Malvineous
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Re: Semantic KeenWiki

Post by Malvineous » Wed Dec 13, 2017 22:12

Yes as much as I love Potato, I've changed it to Yes, No and Some.

I'll have to update those #ask queries to use Yes/No instead of true/false.

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Re: Semantic KeenWiki

Post by Commander Spleen » Thu Dec 14, 2017 0:27

I guess I'll just have to start saying 'potato' instead of 'some' irl.

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Re: Semantic KeenWiki

Post by nanomekia » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:42

Let's make that the PCKF callsign, sort of like Redditors can identify one another iRL by asking if the narwhal bacons at midnight.
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Re: Semantic KeenWiki

Post by Nisaba » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:39

against expectation I do have some spare time ATM. where can I help, what to do?!

----------------------

ok, there is an issue concerning the current status of some mods. a number of those Vorticon mods have a the status Unknown, which seems to be problematic. thing is, that I really don't know their current status... complete, beta, alpha, abandoned? I'm pretty certain, that most of them won't ever get updated, due to their release dates (>15 years ago). but someone has to play-test them, in order to proclaim their actual status... that gives me an idea.

_______________

quick question (because I'm too lazy to search for an answer myself): code wise, what's the difference between the colon and the double-colon?
for eg.:

Code: Select all

 [[Category:Keen 1 mods || Keen 2 mods || Keen 3 mods]]

Code: Select all

 [[Has new graphics::Some || No]]
 [[Has new levels::true]]
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Re: Semantic KeenWiki

Post by Malvineous » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:41

Be careful Spleen, if you do that potato people might think you're a bit weird.

Updating the mod status would be a great place to start. My personal opinion is that a mod should be Alpha if it's buggy, Beta if it only has a few levels or graphical changes but looks like it should have more, and Abandoned if the status is otherwise unknown, it's obviously not complete, and it's been more than a few years since it was released. If any modders are reading this, you can add {{MyMods}} to your KeenWiki userpage (see an example) and you'll get a list of your own mods appearing - it'd be great if you could update any missing info for your own stuff.

Some of the changes (like updating the level screenshots on each mod page) I can do semi-automatically with a script, so probably not worth spending the time doing that manually. But take a look at Atroxian Realm as the way to do pages for new mods. Essentially instead of putting a list of levels, creatures, etc. on the mod page itself, now the info is attached to each uploaded image. So (using the official games as an example), you upload Berkeloid.png and you put all the stats about the Berkeloid in the image's description page. (Again see Atroxian Realm levels and creatures for examples.) This way the lists on the mod page can be populated entirely automatically.

The double colons vs single colons is a bit complex, suffice it to say a single colon means original MediaWiki stuff (categories, images, etc.) and the double-colon is used for custom metadata supplied by the Semantic MediaWiki add-on. In the #ask queries, generally everything will have double-colons except for the categories. || means "or" in your quoted examples (which means, the pages we want must be in Keen 1 mods, or Keen 2 mods, etc.) Everything on a new line means "and" (i.e. the page must be in Keen 1/2/3 mods, and have some/no new graphics, and have new levels, i.e. it's a Vorticons levelpack.)

There's a new link at the bottom of the sidebar that says "Browse properties" and when you click that on a page, it will show you what double-colon values are available for the page. For example Atroxian Realm has a property shown here called "Number of secret levels" so if you did an #ask query that said [[Number of secret levels::0]] then you'd get a list of mods that have no secret levels.

Hopefully that makes sense!

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Re: Semantic KeenWiki

Post by Malvineous » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:30

FYI I have added some documentation about how to add a new mod to the wiki. I hope it will also be useful for the other regular contributors to explain what I have done with the new templates and how they can be used.

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Re: Semantic KeenWiki

Post by Nisaba » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:27

I've been following your upgrades and tweaks the last couple of days, and I must admit: damn, what a crazy workflow! astonishing what you did there! in the name of the whole community I'd like to thank you for your service of not only hosting the Wiki, but also doing a much valued and really amazing admin job! thanks a million!

On the other hand: Man, those transforming tasks lying ahead will be costly in terms of time. don't get me wrong, I'm happy to contribute where I can, but looking at those tasks realistically, I've gotta whole lot of work todo. Of course things will get easier for future uploads, but ATM round about 300 mods need to be verified...

so before I'm gonna start tweaking stuff here I some (hopefully) constructive criticism, I'd like to discuss beforehand:
  • The actual layout ignores level-lists respectively their sub-links, like: http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/Dark_Swamp
  • I'm not the biggest fan of the new level-images-arrangement, although I admit the advantage of these improvements. My vote: Instead of having a detail (320x200px) of an image, I'd prefer a thumbnail (overview).
  • As the worldmap is distinct from other levels it should be shown separately IMO. the image of the map gives an overview of what this mod will be about / capture a theme. I think it shouldn't be listed among the average level images.
  • The Actor images should be displayed in a two column layout, to keep the arrangement more clear/ to prevent from interminable pages.
other than that, I'm looking forward to an future IMF-player implementation. I think Atroxian Realm could be a neat page to test the ability such music player provides.
anyways, thanks again for all these tweaks and changes.
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Re: Semantic KeenWiki

Post by Roobar » Sun Dec 17, 2017 13:36

Malvineous wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:30
FYI I have added some documentation about how to add a new mod to the wiki. I hope it will also be useful for the other regular contributors to explain what I have done with the new templates and how they can be used.
That's the info I was looking for when I registered back then. But it still doesn't explain how to create a page! Do you know how frustrating is for noobs when trying to dealing with this? Took me a few days to figure a way to make a page about a fan game... I was looking for a button or link that says "create a new page" or something. Then I was looking for info on how to create a page... Didn't found. etc. etc....

OK, are there any changes for the fan made games Infobox?

Also, there's this neat page I just found: http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/Keen_4_mods
I knew it existed but didn't knew where to access it. There's no direct link to this neat kind of thumbs-looking pages:

Image
I mean there should be a link within this menu tab where the mods are that should redirect you to these episode pages. Otherwise I don't know how to access http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/Keen_4_mods. Or there is no obvious place with link to these and I've been visiting keen wiki for years...

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Re: Semantic KeenWiki

Post by Malvineous » Sun Dec 17, 2017 14:57

@Nisaba: Haha thanks, I've managed to focus on the KeenWiki for a couple of days now instead of doing other things so I've been able to make some progress with cleaning up some of the things that have bugged me for a long time. I'm a big fan of the automated lists, because it means that if you come up with some other idea for arranging things (as you have suggested) it means you only have to change one template (and maybe one CSS file) and the change will flow through the entire wiki.

So by all means let's discuss how to present things, but don't let it hold you back from making changes!

As to the amount of work, amazingly there are exactly 300 mods on the wiki today, so yes those will eventually need to be updated. Some of them haven't been touched for years as-is, so it will likely be an ongoing job. There's no need to only work on this until it's done, it's the sort of thing you can (for example) aim to fix up one mod a week, and then sooner or later it'll be complete. I can handle updating the mod pages that already have images, the bigger challenge (for me) is getting images uploaded of the maps for those mods that are missing them (since I don't have easy access to any tools that create those types of images.)

As for your points:
  • Ignoring links to pages for individual levels is intentional. I was never a fan of having mods fan out into hundreds of tiny pages as we have enough trouble as it is getting mods populated with enough info, so having to create pages for each level, creature and item is (I think) not necessary. I think any info that would go into one of those pages should be put on the main mod page instead, either as part of the story or hints/tips. If you disagree with this please speak up soon as I will eventually start deleting those pages (after moving any relevant content somewhere else of course).
  • The new level arrangement is a compromise between the full level overview (which I felt was usually resized so small that you couldn't make anything out) and a 1:1 view (where you can't see enough detail.) If you're getting the updated CSS then the level thumbnails should be resized to 50% of their original size. This can be adjusted easily enough, however I felt that shrinking them by more than 50% made them too small to make out significant detail. Of course I'm open to other opinions, but my view is that this makes it clearer what the level looks like (in most cases, unfortunately not all).
  • I like having the world map included with the other levels (along with the menu background map and others) however I am entertaining the idea of using an image map so that you can click on the levels on the world map to access their full-size images (or something like that). But of course that would mean even more work as someone will have to sit down and enter coordinates for every single level, so I probably won't do that any time soon. I see your point about the world map giving an overview of the game, however I also think that the world map is perhaps not so important in the overall scheme of things, as it's completely different to the actual game levels you play. However if others also think the world map is important enough to stand aside from the other levels then I'm certainly open to other options.
  • I'm still undecided about the best way to display actors. The two column layout is great if you're on a medium-sized screen, but it doesn't really work on mobile (have to scroll) nor on a large wide-screen monitor (lots of wasted space). The new style will expand and contract to fit whatever width the browser window is. I did go with two columns for the updated points/collectibles list, however these will also wrap if the browser width gets too small. I will agree that the new layout does put a lot more space around images than it needs to, as without this the larger images push out some rows so they don't line up with the others. If you've got any suggestions for a way of doing it that 1) resizes to fit all screen sizes, 2) works well with less whitespace, and 3) still lets us generate the lists automatically, let me know.
  • Yes the IMF player will be coming at some point. I have Atroxian Realm earmarked for this, assuming I can get easy access to the IMF files for upload. At this stage I imagine it will be the same principle as the other images, uploading an IMF and adding a template to the page, so that the song list can be generated automatically. I'd just like to do it in such a way that the original games and mods can share much of the same wikicode.
@Roobar: The Keen_4_mods page you linked to was always accessible from the main Keen 4 page, however until these recent changes it was always a bit hacky the way it was done so it wasn't given prime placement in case it broke. There were also links to it at the top of each big table of mods (e.g. if you click on Mods/Vorticons in the sidebar). However there's now a list at the bottom of each episode showing the latest mods for that game, as well as one on the main page showing the latest mods across all games, each with links to the full mod lists, so hopefully this will make it easier for people to find. I still have to come up with an idea about how to present the textual table of mods as opposed to the pictorial list of mods. The tables are still very useful as they allow you to more easily sort by some other criteria, such as the number of levels or to group completed mods together. On that note, is everyone happy with the current arrangement whereby the tables combine all mods for Vorticons onto one page and Galaxy onto another? Would you disagree if they were split to become one page per episode instead? It will be a bit easier to handle if there's a separate list for each episode, and the lists are getting quite long (158 mods for Keen 1!)

I haven't yet looked at fan games but yes these same changes could apply to them as well. I'll probably wait until I'm happier with the mods first though before doing anything with fan games, just so we can get as many issues as possible ironed out first and then just copy everything over to the fan games.

Apologies for the lack of instructions for creating new pages, feel free to add that to the instructions. I have been assuming that people are vaguely familiar with MediaWiki from having contributed to other wikis, and we had some issues early on where people were using the KeenWiki to learn how to use wikis generally, filling it with irrelevant test pages and things, so having some barrier to entry isn't all bad. It makes maintenance easier if people learn on a wiki designed for that, and then come back to the KeenWiki once they understand the basics. This is also why there's that biography you have to complete when signing up for an account. So many people write complaints in there as if it's a huge hassle to come up with 20 words related to Keen, but since that requirement was put on it's been years since we've had any spam to deal with. Fingers crossed it stays that way!

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