NETKEEN: Multiplayer Keen Game

Snortimer · Post by **Snortimer** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 23:51

Why am I getting PC speaker sounds by default, instead of the music that I hear in the videos?...

lemm · Post by **lemm** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 23:51

You must go to the configuration menu and select adlib sounds, adlib music.

XkyRauh · Post by **XkyRauh** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:53

Chiming in to say this is awesome--I had my first match against Ceilick, and got quite lucky. :)

Looking forward to some potential 4p madness in the near future!!

Snortimer · Post by **Snortimer** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:50

Okay, I tried out my first matches, against Ceilick and Lemm. Got demolished.

And hey, Lemm knows all about that hiding-where-the-pole-goes-down trick. Who would've thought?

EDIT: Actually, he was apparently using the trick of pressing backspace to see where I was. Sneaky! Goes against the spirit of the thing a bit, I'd say.

Have to say that it DOES WORK on the Pandora (I followed ceilick's tutorial on pg.2), but it's quite laggy, 3-player especially. I think it's because DOSBox on the Pandora is still pretty unoptimised, and actually seems to be slower in Hotfix 5 than in Hotfix 3 (if reports are to be believed). Especially as I was running DOSBox while multitasking, with XChat also open. The internet connection is probably not the issue.

I'm going to try playing on my PC next time; I figured out how to set it up in DFend, which is the DOSBox frontend I use. You need to have "override game start" checked in the "Starting" settings, so that you can type in "netkeen -nodes 2" or "netkeen -nodes 3". And you also have to adjust the "Network" settings. You can check "server" (in which case you'll be hosting) or "client" (in which case you need to enter in the IP of the person hosting into the box). Everything else is done automatically.

EDIT: okay! Just played a few dozen matches with lemm. He's quite good, but I also won some.

I really love that Keen 5 level where you keep falling & falling. Really fun to play. Also that large Keen 4 one with the seaweed. I seem to do the worst in levels with hazards; I'm just really bad at avoiding them. In those levels, I spent a lot of time running away.

That one with all the falling goplats in particular is almost unplayable. (I was also really bad at that Keen 4 level with the two long horizontal levels)

Level #11 (Keen 4) has those green pools that are placed in the most awkward places - so you fall into them if you miss the ledge.

The Keen 4 level with the bridge you can turn off is fun. I killed lemm a few times by turning it off at strategic moments, sending him to a fiery death. I wish something like that could count as a kill as it does require strategy (only in that one level; in other levels, you can't see the platform as you're turning it on/off, so it would just be cheap), but I've been told it's too complex.

The houses that you can go into in some Keen4 levels are pretty neat. I like the falling out a window!

Some of the maps are marred by the fact that everyone always generates at the same point.

Also, I didn't realize until just now that lemm is the guy who made this. No wonder he's good!

Snortimer · Post by **Snortimer** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 15:25

Upon some reflection, I've come to the conclusion that my favorite CK5 maps are all the ones that are made by Ceilick.

#4 is also really interesting, but I think it's more fun as single-player than as multiplayer.

Also, I've changed around some settings in DOSBox on the Pandora... might be less laggy for me now, we'll see.

Snortimer · Post by **Snortimer** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:08

How to get NetKeen working on the Pandora.

For the future reference of Commander Spleen, and possibly others? Who knows, some other folks from GP32X may even come visit.

mortimer · Post by **mortimer** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 15:27

Nospike · Post by **Nospike** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 18:33

My favourite map is the tall one with the huuuuuuuge drop, rotating bricks, long bridges an stuff.

Snortimer · Post by **Snortimer** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:24

Here's an idea I have... what if shots fired from both players cancel each other out if they meet? Could reduce the number of times when both players die from shooting each other at point blank range. I don't know if this would work or not, but maybe as a selectable option?

@ Nospike, yes, I love that one too. I think that's #9. The one with the falling goplats is much more about luck than skill, though, and not much fun to play. I mean, look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9_AF6XKGFY

I really like Spleen's levels in Keen 4. More than many of Ceilick's even.

The first two Keen Dreams levels are really simple and really fun for 2-player matches.

I'm disappointed that there's no Keen 6 level based on conveyer belts and those ultra-steep slopes from Bloogfoods yet, though. Can those be used in level design, or is it Keen 5-type stuff only?

Also, some people make levels with long, straight corridors with no slopes or jumping room. That's a bad thing to have in a NetKeen map, because it allows people to fire along the corridor from far offscreen and you can't avoid their shots. So again, it becomes more about random luck than skill.

lemm · Post by **lemm** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:42

Here's an idea I have... what if shots fired from both players cancel each other out if they meet? Could reduce the number of times when both players die from shooting each other at point blank range. I don't know if this would work or not, but maybe as a selectable option?

What would likely happen is that both parties would just stand there blasting away until one ran out of ammo, since that's the best move to make in that situation (it`s not possible to run away or even jump away quickly enough without taking damage). This makes dominating the ammunition supply in 1v1 even more critical (since the principle tactic in 1v1 play already is simply to soak up all the ammunition and health and punish your opponent at the spawn points before he can run away and restock). On the other hand, it would give the people who do have an ammunition advantage more opportunity to be the aggressor, since it`s disadvantageous to pursue an enemy (you are constantly running into his bullets, but he is always evading yours).

Well, maybe I'll put an option for it.

Also, some people make levels with long, straight corridors with no slopes or jumping room. That's a bad thing to have in a NetKeen map, because it allows people to fire along the corridor from far offscreen and you can't avoid their shots. So again, it becomes more about random luck than skill.

True, although if there are too many corridors, the game can just devolve into an endless pursuit, since it`s really, really, hard to hit someone unless he is trapped in some way or another. I think there needs to be a balance between the two. "Gnosticence brawl" is a good example of that balance in my opinion.

BBalazs · Post by **BBalazs** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 14:18

Having played a greater number of network matches already, I have come to the conclusion that there is no "good" or "bad" map. If you excel in an open map, you may say that closed map are bad, but that's really only your subjective opinion. Others are better at twisty, close-quarters maps, which makes them their favourite.
Whatever the case, it's a mistake to blame things on the levels themselves. For example, among the people I play with there is one who likes Robo Red Arena the most, because it is open for opportunities. Another one likes Suburbs, claiming that it's more tactical and gives you more choices. Yet another one likes close-quarters maps, like the one with two identical red and green arenas and goplats running back and forth inbetween in ck5 (forgot the name). Yet we all play for the fun of it and I must say we really enjoy all the maps available.

Eros · Post by **Eros** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 21:29

um, how am i supposed to get other people to play with me? i can change the number of players, but it doesn't seem to do anything past that.

Snortimer · Post by **Snortimer** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 22:36

Eros wrote:um, how am i supposed to get other people to play with me? i can change the number of players, but it doesn't seem to do anything past that.

Ceilick wrote a tutorial earlier.

If you still don't understand things, this guide I wrote, though specific to the Pandora handheld, might help also (dboxfe and XChat can be run in Windows as well; in particular, the "multiplayer, internet" section should be pretty much the same on any device).

Post by **Ceilick** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 23:15

Lemm wrote:What would likely happen is that both parties would just stand there blasting away until one ran out of ammo, since that's the best move to make in that situation (it`s not possible to run away or even jump away quickly enough without taking damage).

This exactly, and in my opinion that would really hurt gameplay. Part of the challenge in head on stunner battles is shooting the right amount to kill your enemy while trying to also jump away at just the right time to escape death yourself. This, at least to me, seems better gameplay than shooting until someone runs out of ammo.

One thing that might be considered, though, is the ability to detonate bombs with stunner shots.

Lemm wrote:
Snortimer wrote:Also, some people make levels with long, straight corridors with no slopes or jumping room. That's a bad thing to have in a NetKeen map, because it allows people to fire along the corridor from far offscreen and you can't avoid their shots. So again, it becomes more about random luck than skill.
True, although if there are too many corridors, the game can just devolve into an endless pursuit, since it`s really, really, hard to hit someone unless he is trapped in some way or another. I think there needs to be a balance between the two. "Gnosticence brawl" is a good example of that balance in my opinion.

Agreed on the need for balance and to at least mostly to avoid opportunities for long distance kills (unless that's the theme of the level). This is something I tried to do particularly with my keen 6 levels, create rooms that aren't so large that you could get shot and never know who shot you, but rooms large enough for an actual battle to take place in. It's a hard thing to balance while also making the level large/diverse/interesting.

The ideal offscreen death, imko, is when you get shot and then, nearly immediately after, the person who shot you comes into view while you're waiting to respawn. If that doesn't happen and offscreen deaths are occurring frequently (more than twice one round), then it's probably time edit the level to fix that (again, unless this is the theme of the level or the theme of a certain area of the level).

Commander Spleen · Post by **Commander Spleen** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:13

I'd actually like to see an option that makes bombs deadly to their owners. It always seems like cheating when a throw a bunch of bombs at someone, miss, and then run through the pile of bombs unharmed as they explode.