Commander Keen: Shadowkeen 1 Remake

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Captainkeen
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Commander Keen: Shadowkeen 1 Remake

Post by Captainkeen »

Many years ago Levellord released a mod called shadowkeen1. It has amazing graphics with a great atmosphere and wonderfull sprites. It suffered however from a lot of flaws, unfair deaths where the player didn't know what kills or where you can stand on and most levels where generally not fun to play, or even impossible to complete. In an attempt to revive what could have been maybe the best keen mod ever released. I have made a remake of shadowkeen1. All the bugs that I could find have been solved and most of the levels are heavely altered making them more fun and more playable. tough they are still quite challenging mostly due to their length, there shouldn't be any problems with unfair deaths.

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http://205.196.123.35/8l4u0c9xfs5g/z7eg ... wkeen1.zip
Ceilick
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Post by Ceilick »

Applaud the idea, but the execution here is kind of lacking in my opinion.

Levels still stuffer from exessive death tiles, long sprawling designs and paths, and spammy point placement.

Are you considering 'remastering' the rest of the ShadowKeen series? I began a project like this some time ago, attempting to make a cohesive and more playable version of this series and still have the resources if you're intersted.
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Levellass
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Post by Levellass »

I have bad news, episode 4 isn't going to be much better.


Aaah this takes me back, we need some re-releases of old stuff like Xky's first mod.
What you really need, not what you think you ought to want.
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Post by Benvolio »

Xky's first (and all subsequent) mods require no alteration imho! Some kind of re-release could be worthwhile but I wouldn't change much in them!

As for LL's... my favourite was Shadowkeen 2 so hopefully this will get some attention. It had a vast number of levels in it. The worst thing about her mods (and anyone else who imitated this) was the dos batch file interface that you have to negotiate in order to play the mod. I approve this project, Captainkeen.
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tulip
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Post by tulip »

Ah it's out already. I'd liked to talk to you a bit more about this, but I was gone for a few days, so I can understand that you released. My main critique is rather similar to Ceilick's. It's still as confusing as the original, unexpected things still kill you like the tree faces. True that some unfair deaths have been removed, fall through ground tiles and secret passages eliminated, as they lead to more unexpectedness.
One reason why I think it's too hard is that I think you didn't eliminate a single enemy from the original version, yet removed about 90% of the ammo you get early on in the original.
As you start out level 1 doesn't seem altered at all, until you see the change of the exit, but that's about it, so it doesn't feel fresh enough (maybe that's different for people who haven't played the original). In later levels the changes were sometimes bigger, at times changing the feel of the levels (The first time in Castle I think), which I find more interesting.
In the case of that mountain climb, I think you shouldn't have removed the fall through ground puzzle, because that was a cool and original feature in SK1. There was a hint message for it somewhere in another level, and if you had read that you could pass easily, if not, you were most likely stumped for a while.

All in all I hope you work on it a bit more, maybe Ceilick could send you what he has so far, and you could throw the ideas together. Shadowkeen 1 has always been one of my favourites, so it deserves the attention.
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Boreas249
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Post by Boreas249 »

I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this is just way too hard.

There's too many hazards, especially in the first level. Some of them you can hardly see, others you wouldn't think are hazards, but one touch... poof, you're dead.

That's just my opinion though... I mean honestly I think this mod needs to be toned down.
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Levellass
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Post by Levellass »

I learned all I know about level creation from Levellord.

In retrospect, that may not have been a wise idea...
What you really need, not what you think you ought to want.
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Post by Keening_Product »

Levellass wrote:I learned all I know about level creation from Levellord.

In retrospect, that may not have been a wise idea...
So your usernames are supposed to be ironic then? :disguised
Keening_Product was defeated before the game.

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Levellass
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Post by Levellass »

Indeed, I am an arch hipster. (I was into Keen after it was cool!)
What you really need, not what you think you ought to want.
Captainkeen
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Post by Captainkeen »

Levels still stuffer from exessive death tiles
I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this is just way too hard.
There's too many hazards, especially in the first level
I guess these levels are still too hard for alot of people. But really they where intended to be a (reasonable) challenge for experienced keeners. So I understand that the more casual playes find this too difficult for their taste. Still with some effort anyone should be able to play this mod to the end. It's not like its full of death traps near-impossible jumps or blind drops. This version is *much* easier then the original shadowkeen I think. I wonder did anyone managed to get to the end yet?
My main critique is rather similar to Ceilick's. It's still as confusing as the original, unexpected things still kill you like the tree faces. True that some unfair deaths have been removed.
There's too many hazards, especially in the first level. Some of them you can hardly see, others you wouldn't think are hazards, but one touch... poof, you're dead.
Oh come on... What's confusing is that you can post a comment like this. Ok so maybe it isn't entirely obvious that the tree face kills the first time. also some of those pink creatures could seem like they might be harmless. But seriously it should only take one death to find out and there is nothing confusing about it. And there most certainly are no invisible dangers or "hard to see". Honestly don't blame the author(s) of the mod for your lack of skill. It's intended to be difficult.
One reason why I think it's too hard is that I think you didn't eliminate a single enemy from the original version, yet removed about 90% of the ammo you get early on in the original.
but it's just a speculation right? you didn't actually run out of ammo anywhere, right?
As for LL's... my favourite was Shadowkeen 2 so hopefully this will get some attention. It had a vast number of levels in it.
Maybe I will get around to doing a remake of shadowkeen2 as well but probably not soon. so if anyone else is interested in doing so your welcome. Yes shadowkeen 2 is probably the most in need of a remake of all mods. atleast there should be a fix so you can acces all the levels.
All in all I hope you work on it a bit more, maybe Ceilick could send you what he has so far, and you could throw the ideas together. Shadowkeen 1 has always been one of my favourites, so it deserves the attention.
I mean honestly I think this mod needs to be toned down.
I'm not planning on making a new version of these levels. but what we could do is make a new level pack of entirely new levels for this mod. Everyone who is interested could send in their levels. and if we want we can have these levels more aimed at the average difficulty.
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Post by Ceilick »

CaptainKeen wrote:...it should only take one death to find out and there is nothing confusing about it.
Trial and error is considered by most to be unfair in Keen levels.
CaptainKeen wrote:most of the levels are heavely altered making them more fun and more playable
This is what you initially advertised.
CaptainKeen wrote:Honestly don't blame the author(s) of the mod for your lack of skill. It's intended to be difficult.
Don't get defensive. You want to make challenging levels? That's fine. Don't be surprised when people say "too hard" when all you tell them is "these are fun, playable levels".
Captainkeen
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Post by Captainkeen »

Trial and error is considered by most to be unfair in Keen levels.
These levels do not require trail and error to know what paths to take for example. the only thing is when you play a mod for the first time you don't know for sure what kills. that's normal. the first time you play keen1 you don't know if a garg kills you are a yorp and so on you just find out. That is not something you should complain about unless it is entirely unexpected. and that is not the case in this mod. even so in this way you die 1 time from the tree maybe and maybe a second time from the pink monsters thats 2 times and then you know what kills then there aren't anymore "unfair" deaths. for the entire rest of the game. honestly that is no cause to complain that is just lazy.
most of the levels are heavely altered making them more fun and more playable. This is what you initially advertised.
Yes they are a lot more playable. Thats doesn't mean that they are a total cake walk and you can play them with one hand while on the phone. Maybe you never played the original shadowkeen if you did then you would know the differnce. I removed the things that are completely unfair and tedius I didn't say I was gonna remove all the challenge and remove all the danger tiles.
Don't get defensive. You want to make challenging levels? That's fine. Don't be surprised when people say "too hard" when all you tell them is "these are fun, playable levels".
I do not get upset if people tell me that it's difficult. I said so myself that they where still challenging. I get upset when people criticize my levels for things that are not legitimate complaints. It's not "confusing" if it's too difficult to avoid the danger tiles. Don't say you have difficulty seeing them or that you are confused what kills. That is a little offensive to be honest. And it doesn't matter but I will point out that it's a silly comment to make if it's inaccurate.
Boreas249
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Post by Boreas249 »

Honestly, you shouldn't take offense to what we're saying, rather just look at it as constructive criticism and try to see our side of it. To be honest, some of the things that kill you don't make sense (a face on a tree? Why?) It's understandable that you wanted to make this challenging for experienced players, I do enjoy a good challenge, but there's an extent to which it stops being fun and starts being a chore. This is still a video game, the point of which being to play and have fun... I'm not getting much of that here, in fact, my first few minutes were spent with the whole "TOUCH THIS AND DIE!!!" routine...
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