I'm a huge Keen fan, so you can't pull out any bad thing about it from me. It was the first PC game I truly loved.Bernie wrote:Well Keen feels quite free for a 2d tile based engine, but for a 3d game, Wolf3d is hella limiting everythings in blocks with no up/down at all (interesting- kinda makes wolf3d sort of a 2d game- instead of x and y coordinates, its x and z.)
Indeed in your hands - it gets treatment of pure magic - and I preciate and admire that much.
I've started my way on Doom/NewDoom forums (you can see the remnants of that in my nick...people playing "Skulltag" are still playing alof of my art - from "1st frag" medal (and some other medals) to some scenery, to animated CTF flag, some skins etc etc....including famous "Double Resolution pack"....) and Game Maker forums, and so I have quite a perspective and special spot in my in heart for each of those engines, and have my impressions regarding strong or weak spots of each.
I know "Wolf3D" engine well, modding for Wolf3D for too many years to mention, and even had my "15 minutes" of World-wide controversial media/internet/tv/radio/newpapers fame and buzz with a viral video trailer of one of my Wolf3D creations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX82x56LrwM)...but this post is not about me...you can always read about me in the interview on Dean's blog (http://deans-wolf-blog.blogspot.co.il/2 ... l?spref=fb)
Now back to topic (which is offtopic still in a way).
Keen engine is one of the most inspiring platformer engines I know.
And sure Wolf3D can't be a good engine to recreate Keen-style gameplay for Keen/platformer fans. (Though some nice Wolf3D tributes have been...)
But as for Wolf3D - it doesn't have to compete with Keen in it's field - as those are 2 different engines, gameplays. If you want to jump with pogo - you better use Keen engine
Wolf3D engine can sort of emulate z-axis by famous silent teleporters trick...there are tricks for alot of things. I've seen Wolf3D mods where you can look up and down and do alot of things we didn't think Wolf3D can do. I've seen Doom engine faithfully recreated in Wolf3D engine - to the last detail (see famous "Klooni" mod). You play it - and you forget it's Wolf3D.
Wolf3D had alot of impressive achievements.
Even one of my most famous Wolf3D mods ("Operation Eisenfaust : Origins") got feedback from gamers that it's better than many Doom mods - and makers of those Doom mods should feel ashamed of themselves.
Not to mention Wolf3D has Wolf4SDL - and there the only limits of the engine are the limits of time, patience, imagination and coder's skill...can can even rewrite the renderer if needed.
I've seen so much made for Wolf3D over he years that I don't think Wolf3D can be called a limited engine - and even if it is - wolfers seem to deal well with those limits to make those feel transparent. I know features of my current in-work mods, I know features I've seen over the years - limitations are not in engines - but in our brains, in us. In the eye of the watcher. One only needs some vision, creativity - and a good coder. I just cry with joy on sight of every victory over limitation.
What you did on Keen yourself with your mod - is not a mod on "non-limited engine" - but a masterpeice of creativity on a very limited engine and a true victory over limitations...even with color palette, not to mention the rest. Keen is 4bit, Wolf3D is 8bit.
But this is still not the issue. After all I said, with all Wolf3D flexibility and versatility - I still don't recommend Wolf3D for platformers - just as I won't recommend Keen engines for shooters So if you love platformers - Keen engine is MUCH better for you.
I just don't see Wolf3D engine as limiting. Doom engine is limiting too - it's a matter of approach. Dooms resolutions of sprite sizes - are more limiting in the huge amount of effort you need to put to make (and offset properly) new art - than 64x64 art standard of Wolf3D. I have more freedom artiwse in low resolutions of Wolf3D - than I have on Doom, I feel I can do more - not less, bring my vision closer and more faithfully. Wolf3D mapping is also faster - Doom mapping takes much more effort and time. So this is limitation too...sometimes so-called "limitations" - are source of our greatest freedom - and "freedoms" - are source of our greatest limitation..as we need challenge...muscle of creativity needs some limits and borders to overcome - to truly shine. I love limitations...I went from Doom to Wolf3D - from Wolf3D to Keen modding...I seem to get charm with more and more limiting engines...I'm in love with limitations - and don't see them as "bad".
You are talented sprite artist...I am less. I try cover that with experience and creativity, with patience and truly hard work, fighting pixel for pixel.
But still - maybe for a spriter like you - there is no need to mod Wolf3D - as you can draw art for doom or Build engine resolutions with ease.
But I'm not like that. I'm good in 64x64 - but much less with larger resolutions.
Doom mods nowdays take too much effort.
I want to tell you another story. I loved ROTT for many years, played it for years...I know it's maps by heart. And then I read on some site that it has 90-degree wall limitation - and I was shocked - I never noticed it!!! I thought it's like Doom...I even played it again just to make sure they are right LOL.
It's good mapping, it's good concept, it's good gameplay....and you don't notice engine's limitations...