Updated- 'The Ruin of Roib' - beta v3

Post by **Levellass** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:17

I have to say yes, there are some visual problems in this mod. I am not sure I mentioned doorways but they most certainly are an issue. It may pay to have a simple 'forced example' for some of them. (Keen is in a room or small area, the only way out is through a door. This makes the door-ness of that door much more obvious and the player will look out for them next time.)

This might also help with the sparks. Once you know they're deadly you can avoid them but they lack the... oomph needed to be obvious hazards. (You can mistake them for mere background.)

For the keygem trees the 'figure it out yourself' route is a no-win situation in games. If you spoon-feed the player then the game feels cheap. But if you leave even one vital thing unexplained it becomes a thorn in the paw of everyone playing with the cry of 'This level is unbeatable!'

I have found the best route to take is to make these things optional. The level can still be completed if you don't use X, but it is either much harder or much less rewarding. The gem trees could unlock bonus areas with a different gem just winning the level. Gem doors could open out shortcuts or let Keen avoid hazards, there are many oppurtunities.

Or you could have a message somewhere about the 'brilliant gem gardens of Roib, source of keygems for the galaxy!'

Your boss level may benefit from a door or two so Keen can quickly move from one part of the level to another (It doesn't even have to be too far away, just to buy him some time, especially first time players. Your boss's smoke also needs to vanish when offscreen to avoid overloading memory.)

The small bloblets from the killing of the green blob should be deadly IMKO, people dodge 'em anyway.

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:01

Thanks for your further input levellass. The problem is I'm not gonna rearrange levels, they are what they are. I'll be there for another month if I did that (I'm getting pretty tired on working on this thing anyway).

I'll expand the 'gems' info in the 'about game' section in the computerwrist, mentioning the gem trees. I'm not sure what else to do (besides, personally i don't think its all *that* hard).
maybe I could also make the gems in the gem tree glow (animate)- yeah, I might give that a go.

and when you guys talk about doorways not being obvious, what doors do you mean in particular? I'm hoping you won't say the darkness in the trees background.

For those arched doorways for the purple background, I have some doormat tiles that I know I didn't use much, but maybe I should put them under that doorway in all instances. do you think that could help?

Your boss's smoke also needs to vanish when offscreen to avoid overloading memory.)

tsk, you're right. damnit. *drudges off... trying to find a place to put that $C7 $02 $0002W code*

NY00123 · Post by **NY00123** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 14:54

***
DISCLAIMER: As usual be warned of POTENTIAL SPOILERS.
***

Well, I have completed the boss level of this pack. Based on the level list on the KeenWiki, it looks like I have found ways to all levels you can access from the world map. Furthermore, two mega candies have been found out of the six (the mega shake and mega cake). Don't think I have much to add in terms of a general opinion - Again, this modification has raised the bar!

As before, I have found a few possible glitches. One of these may have been done on purpose, while I haven't found specific methods for reproducing the others.
- It seems like the discussion with King Gak in Roib Palace effectively deactivates the bridges in the world map. This is the case even if I make Keen commit suicide before completing the level. However, with the right jump I can skip the discussion, finish the level and walk on the bridges as usual.
- I can't seem to find a way to reproduce this. There has been one time, right upon exiting from the Scoreboard level, that Keen's sprite on the world map has seemed to move a bit from its original location, resulting in it getting pushed to the right as I've tried to retract. (Actually, the sprite getting moved is just a guess of a cause for the latter.)
- Another thing possibly hard to reproduce: With a specific saved game, after completing most of the levels, Roib Palace included (without the discussion with King Gak), *if* I enter and complete either the Scoreboard or Hermit's Shack level, then I can't access The Opening level from the world map. (I can see move to a tile from which you can usually access it, but it doesn't work.)

Thanks again for this pack!

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 16:53

NY00123 wrote:- It seems like the discussion with King Gak in Roib Palace effectively deactivates the bridges in the world map. This is the case even if I make Keen commit suicide before completing the level.

oh yeah- this is a bit complex, confusing and annoying- but to make the bridge's open up I had to make level 15 be complete, which is the boss level. Long story short I have to deactivate the bridges in order to make level 15, the boss level, be playable.
I'm sure theres a better way this could've been done, but I only have so much patching ability.

However, with the right jump I can skip the discussion, finish the level and walk on the bridges as usual.

ah crap, this is bad

gotta fix it.

- I can't seem to find a way to reproduce this. There has been one time, right upon exiting from the Scoreboard level, that Keen's sprite on the world map has seemed to move a bit from its original location, resulting in it getting pushed to the right as I've tried to retract.

ah damnit, this happened with soemone else in the other thread. crap :/ and I myself couldn't get this error to appear. Maybe I should just extend the island to the right incase it ever happens. a kinda cheapskate solution, but what else can I do.

thanks NY for pointing out these.

Post by **Levellass** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:48

Possible solutions:

Try making the bridges appear when level 0 (The map) is complete. This can be set easily enough and the game doesn't care if the map is complete when it sends you to it.

The island glitch occurs rarely when Keen enters a level a fraction of a pixel off. This is rounded on exit which can cause Keen to shift position slightly. Extending the island is a good idea.

NY00123 · Post by **NY00123** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:46

Another thought I've had about the island glitch (haven't tested this on my own, though):

Wouldn't it be fixed if each of the surrounding tiles has only the required "blocking" tile property? For instance, the tile to the right of the entrance would block Keen from the left and no more. Of course a minor disadvantage of this is that a few more distinct tiles may be required...

EDIT: I've just realized this is not the case, although if *two* such tiles are put to the right of the entrance then it may, sort of, do the job.

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 16:32

Levellass wrote:Try making the bridges appear when level 0 (The map) is complete.

hmm, I have a feeling I've already tried that... but I'll give it another go. thanks lass.

and P.S, again, which doorways do you think are not obvious??

NY00123 wrote: EDIT: I've just realized this is not the case, although if *two* such tiles are put to the right of the entrance then it may, sort of, do the job.

na I think it'll just push keen even further away. I'll just make the island bigger then.
all this mucking around and I'm not even sure if i should have the scoreboard level be accesable in the first place :s

Post by **Levellass** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:49

Bernie wrote:
Levellass wrote:Try making the bridges appear when level 0 (The map) is complete.
hmm, I have a feeling I've already tried that... but I'll give it another go. thanks lass.

and P.S, again, which doorways do you think are not obvious??

The light red ones. Ditto for being able to stand on some of the light red building's rooves.

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:16

Levellass wrote:The light red ones.

uh, the ones for the purple buildings, yeah. Well I'm putting doormats infront of those doorways now (atleast, the first few) so the rest is up to god.

NY00123 · Post by **NY00123** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:20

Oh, before I forget: That, erm, white creature wearing glasses, found in later levels, may get stuck on an edge of a floor (so far seen it happening on a right edge only). I have just reproduced this occurring right after the creature has been shooting while also standing on the edge. Usually it may seem like it makes gameplay easier (not sure about this), but in Glass Gardens this can block the way to complete the level. To be more specific I refer to the occurrence of that creature found to the left of the player's start position.

Thanks for fixing other issues!

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 14:20

NY00123 wrote:Oh, before I forget: That, erm, white creature wearing glasses, found in later levels, may get stuck on an edge of a floor (so far seen it happening on a right edge only).

well it just happens when he shoots on the edge, like you said, but its reasonably rare to make that happen though right?
I'll play around with its hitbox and stuff to try to fix it- but i'll have a hard time initiating it in the first place in order to test it out.

thanks again NY.

NY00123 · Post by **NY00123** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 16:08

Bernie wrote:
NY00123 wrote:Oh, before I forget: That, erm, white creature wearing glasses, found in later levels, may get stuck on an edge of a floor (so far seen it happening on a right edge only).
well it just happens when he shoots on the edge, like you said, but its reasonably rare to make that happen though right?
I'll play around with its hitbox and stuff to try to fix it- but i'll have a hard time initiating it in the first place in order to test it out.
thanks again NY.

Thanks for taking care! Maybe you can temporarily change the creature's behaviors in order to make it easier to reproduce this (say, by making it shoot right when the map loads, or shoot once per two steps of walking).

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 17:12

ok- got some problems. i can fix its spinning when shooting on an edge, but then it will spin when it shoots on a slope.
it might work if i made all the frames of the enemy be the same size, but im trying to save as much memory as i can. hmm.

Post by **Levellass** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:45

It may help to make the frame *after* shooting have a fall behavior, like a stunned sprite. That way when shooting on slopes or flat ground the frame doesn't even last long enough to appear, but instead of spinning they just fall down. I was forced to do this with the zombies and scarecrows in ValKeen. (If you time it just right on a slope the scarecrows will be seen to 'dash' slightly due to this effect.)

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:06

hmm, interesting idea. Thanks. I'll give that a shot, levellass.

P.S look, why don't you just fix my mod? you have the answer to all the issues anyway

(jokes ofcourse).