Updated- 'The Ruin of Roib' - beta v3

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Re: Updated- 'The Ruin of Roib' - beta v3

Post by Snortimer » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:28

I've tried several times to get past level 3, "Wreck City" on easy mode, and the whole game crashes every time. I have to forcibly kill DOSBox.

Here are three save files in which the crash happens shortly after (within a few minutes) no matter what the player does:
https://files.fm/u/t2mbvefh

I haven't read through the entire thread, but has anyone else managed to pass level 3? If so, how?
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Re: Updated- 'The Ruin of Roib' - beta v3

Post by K1n9_Duk3 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 21:08

Well, hairmonster12 has recorded a playthrough of the level, so I guess it's possible to beat the level (but he played it on hard):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzUF0JkYtjs
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Re: Updated- 'The Ruin of Roib' - beta v3

Post by Nisaba » Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:53

@ minute 10:24 Hairmonster is talking about the level crashes, just in case you are interested:
https://youtu.be/nzUF0JkYtjs?t=624
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Re: Updated- 'The Ruin of Roib' - beta v3

Post by Snortimer » Wed Apr 03, 2019 17:12

This time, it crashed with an actual error message. "Null pointer assignment".
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Any of you modders know what causes this? Is there a particular way I can play the level to avoid triggering it?

It has crashed a few times at the moment Keen's bullet hits one of the robots moving along on the ground, and sometimes right as Keen falls off a ledge.

EDIT: Tried it again. This time, the Keen sprite simply disappeared off the screen after a while. The music kept playing and the background remained, but the escape key wouldn't work.
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Re: Updated- 'The Ruin of Roib' - beta v3

Post by Nisaba » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:03

Snortimer wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 17:12
Keen Wiki wrote:This is a bizarre error that sometimes appears when the game is exited to DOS or when something is massively wrong. It can be overlaid with gibberish and usually only the first line appears. It appears to be inserted by the C++ compiler and thus totally unrelated to the game's actual errors.

It is likely this error only appears when something corrupts the game to such an extent that it fails completely. (Its appearance when the game is quit may be due to the game not being able to shut itself down correctly.) There is little that can be done to mitigate this error.

link: http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/Patch:G ... assignment
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Re: Updated- 'The Ruin of Roib' - beta v3

Post by K1n9_Duk3 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 21:01

The crashes are most likely caused by an error in the patch file. It wouldn't be the first time this happened. It's incredibly easy to make little mistakes in patch files that end up causing crashes like this. In order to track down and fix the error, you would have to know how to read x86 machine code and you would have to examine every single instruction in the patch file and how it interacts with the original code. And given that the patch file is 3276 lines long, I can see why nobody would want do that.
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Re: Updated- 'The Ruin of Roib' - beta v3

Post by Snortimer » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:10

K1n9_Duk3 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 21:01
The crashes are most likely caused by an error in the patch file.
I'm now getting very similar crashes in the "Sick Forest" level. Sometimes the Keen sprite even disappears from the screen, while the game keeps running, though usually everything freezes except for the music.

Since those are the only two levels so far with the "Super Duper" enemy, and the other levels have been stable, my guess is that the problem is related to that enemy's patch code.

Sometimes the stunned Super Duper sprites disappear after I leave an area and come back to them, while the stars around their heads are still there.

By the way, I can't figure out how to open the final door in that level... I have the grey gem, but don't see a place to use it anywhere. It's not visible on the map, either:
http://www.shikadi.net/wiki/keen/images ... Forest.png
Hm, unless it's hidden in one of the tree stump holes... EDIT: Ah, nevermind... 'Twas the statue...
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Re: Updated- 'The Ruin of Roib' - beta v3

Post by Snortimer » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:44

Hmm... Gleem City has some sort of puzzle with rotating the 4 planets of the Roib system that I can't solve. Is the answer in another level that I haven't beaten yet?

Last Outpost, another level that has Super Dupers, also has random crashes. I think it's safe to say at this point that the crashes are because of something in the Super Duper patch file! All the other levels have been stable.

Also, some general comments... there's a lot I like in this mod. Great premise and story, evocative art, imaginative enemies and locations.

But I also feel the level design in this particular mod would be made a lot more enjoyable if Keen had a damage bar (like in Cosmo or Hocus Pocus) rather than a one-touch death system. A lot of the enemies are like the ones in Keen 3, who follow Keen around, and have a random rather than predictable pattern. Sometimes they get into a spot where they're extremely difficult to avoid (for example, those rich pricks with the big laser guns, they're like those scary floating robots in Keen 2 except they follow Keen around even when he's not in their line of sight, and sometimes if they fire when on the edge of a platform, they fall down onto the platform below. This can be a good thing, or it can make getting past them really difficult). I also really hate those "guano from above" pipes that wait until Keen is beneath them to strike. Lots of surprise difficult to avoid deaths there.
Oh, and it can be hard to tell where the actual edges are of debris in the poison river levels, so it's pretty easy to miss and fall in (I love the art for them, but it's not easy to see where the platform is).

Sometimes in the second half of the game, the level designs have been a bit too big and confusing for me to keep track of in my head, and the fruitless backtracking was frustrating, so I resorted to using the endless jump and godmode cheats to quickly find where exactly I'm supposed to go next, or which particular part of the level a switch affected (after which I turn the cheats back off again). I've also become really paranoid of surprise deaths and save frequently. I kinda wish that saving and loading could be done with a single button without exiting to the menu (say, to the default save/load slot) and without the music restarting every time I do it. I really like a lot of the music in here, and it's a shame that it keeps getting interrupted during gameplay.

Also, I've enjoyed the occassional hidden, easy levels, like "a forest of bugs" or the "dump".
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Re: Updated- 'The Ruin of Roib' - beta v3

Post by Nisaba » Tue Apr 23, 2019 22:15

Snortimer wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:44
Last Outpost, another level that has Super Dupers, also has random crashes. I think it's safe to say at this point that the crashes are because of something in the Super Duper patch file! All the other levels have been stable.
well... just in case someone is willing to dive deep into the Super Duper Patch section and search for whatever... here it is:

Code: Select all

################################################
####SUPERDUPER REPLACEMENT FOR MIMROCK
##################################################

%patch $306F6 $0184W #Mimrock Cache start
%patch $30740 $018DW #Mimrock cache end

#how far up sprite appears
%patch $11E97 $FF40W

#foreground value
%patch $11E85 $0002W

#standing still-
%patch $322AA $0184W $0184W $0000W $0001W $0001W $0030W $0000W $0000W
		  $00000000L $11A2059FRL    $09DC176ERL $3458W
#walking-    
%patch $322C8 $0188W $0185W $0000W $0001W $0001W $0008W $0040W $0000W
		  $00000000L $11A2059FRL    $09DC1795RL $3476W
%patch $322E6 $0189W $0186W $0000W $0001W $0001W $0008W $0040W $0000W
		  $00000000L $11A2059FRL    $09DC1795RL $3494W
%patch $32304 $018AW $0187W $0000W $0001W $0001W $0008W $0040W $0000W
		  $11A20494RL $11A2059FRL    $09DC1795RL $3458W

#launching off ground- $34B2W
%patch $32322 $018CW $018BW $0003W $0000W $0000W $0016W $0000W $0040W
		  $11A20711RL $09DC1752RL    $11A205C1RL    $34D0W
#flying in the air- $34D0W
%patch $32340 $018CW $018BW $0003W $0000W $0000W $0064W $0000W $0040W
		  $11A20711RL $09DC1752RL       $09DC176ERL    $34EEW
#falling- $34EEW
%patch $3235E $018CW $018BW $0002W $0000W $0000W $0016W $0000W $0000W
		  $09DC16C9RL $09DC1752RL    $11A2062ERL    $34EEW
#hit the ground- $350CW
%patch $3237C $018DW $018DW $0002W $0000W $0000W $0016W $0000W $0000W
		  $09DC16C9RL $00000000L  $09DC1913RL    $350CW

#what superduper turns into when shot (the 'standing still' sprite)
%patch $11FAB $343AW

#what he becomes when he flies
%patch $11F3E $34B2W

#what he becomes when hits the ground
%patch $12000 $350CW
%patch $12068 $350CW

%patch $12014 $00EEW

#new behaviour- mostly the plant's/seasprite's aiming behaviour- taking over the 'look for keen' beh. from original mimrock.- $11A20494RL 
%patch $11EB4 $55 $8B $EC $56 $8B $76 $06 $8B $1E $D6 $A7 $8B $47 $24 $3B 
		  $44 $28 $73 $0D $8B $47 $28 $3B $44 $24 $76 $05 $C7 $44 $1C 
		  $34B2W  $5E $5D $CB

#change sound
#%patch $11FEF $0010W  #Mimrock bonk on ground sound- $0010W is pretty good
%patch $1205C $001CW  #Mimrock stop bouncing sound
could be a typo, could be something completely different...
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Re:

Post by stayfrosty » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:32

Blorbatrix wrote:
Fri May 13, 2016 23:28

I've seen the secret area next to the exit in the upper left corner, but for the life of me I just can't figure out how to get there and it's slowly but surely driving me insane...[/size]
I too have gone gargin' crazee in The Vault. Damn you Bernie!

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Re:

Post by stayfrosty » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:38

Blorbatrix wrote:
Fri May 13, 2016 23:28
Kind of taking a longshot here posting in this topic, but I desperately need some help concerning the vault level.
[/size]
Ah ha! :lol

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Re: Updated- 'The Ruin of Roib' - beta v3

Post by Snortimer » Thu May 02, 2019 6:14

Grr... :garg
I still can't figure out Gleem City.
Found this playthrough of it, but the guy just uses the jump cheat to get the blue gem, 15 minutes in:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n2F7oPBD5Gg

What's the proper way to solve that planets puzzle?
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Re: Updated- 'The Ruin of Roib' - beta v3

Post by stayfrosty » Thu May 02, 2019 10:20

Snortimer wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 6:14
Grr... :garg
I still can't figure out Gleem City.
Found this playthrough of it, but the guy just uses the jump cheat to get the blue gem, 15 minutes in:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n2F7oPBD5Gg

What's the proper way to solve that planets puzzle?
There's a level on the map that has a stone with carvings that can help you. I think I found it searching south. It will tell you the sequence.

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Re: Updated- 'The Ruin of Roib' - beta v3

Post by Snortimer » Thu May 02, 2019 17:50

stayfrosty wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 10:20
It doesn't though. That's for an earlier level, to solve the sequence of buttons to cross the river to Upper Roib.

Here's the map of that level, there's nothing about planets on that rock:
http://www.shikadi.net/wiki/keen/images ... _Stone.png

The planets puzzle is here, upper left:
http://www.shikadi.net/wiki/keen/images ... m_City.png
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Re: Updated- 'The Ruin of Roib' - beta v3

Post by stayfrosty » Tue May 07, 2019 13:22

Snortimer wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 17:50
stayfrosty wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 10:20
It doesn't though. That's for an earlier level, to solve the sequence of buttons to cross the river to Upper Roib.

Here's the map of that level, there's nothing about planets on that rock:
http://www.shikadi.net/wiki/keen/images ... _Stone.png

The planets puzzle is here, upper left:
http://www.shikadi.net/wiki/keen/images ... m_City.png
Don't you just turn the planet Glorb so the ring is horizontal???

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