Keen 10: Mirror Menace

Here is where to post about the latest Commander Keen fangame or modification you've finished, a new website you've made, or another Keen-related creation.

Should I continue with Keen 11 & 12

Of course. :)
18
69%
Nope.
8
31%
 
Total votes: 26

User avatar
szemi
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 15:19
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Keen 10: Mirror Menace

Post by szemi » Sun Nov 24, 2013 20:08

Commander Keen in..."Dimensional Chaos"

Episode Ten: Mirror Menace


It's finally done! :)
Download now: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4975825/Keen10.zip

Composers:

thehackercat
Genius314
Mr. M
Umbrella
Kosmyn
XkyRauh
Barry Taylor



P.S. Help file will be a *.docx file, which I'll make and upload soon.

Edit: http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/Keen_10:_Mirror_Menace
Last edited by szemi on Mon Nov 25, 2013 21:33, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
DoomJedi
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 707
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:22
Location: Israel

Post by DoomJedi » Sun Nov 24, 2013 21:46

Started playing it...only first levels....very interesting mod. Have some good and lesser good feedbacks so far (mostly artwise)....but I want to play more.

Kudos for a really nice-looking worldmap, love the look, the colors, love the rings level idea as well. Love the ceiling switch too. Some original ideas in this mod. Can't wait to advance on the mod and see more ideas - and I'm sure I will.

For lesser good notes - the mod relates too much on modified Keen art versus making new one - so it looks a bit rushed overall, cuts some corners, and is less immersive because of that. Too many bright and confusing colors, especially for backgrounds. Tiles are a bit simplistic...love some ideas though. Some hazards are confusing or merging too much into a background.
Enemy patches are good but so far (!) nothing to blow me away.
Originality, creativity and love for Keen clearly shows. But also the tendency to cut some corners and rush things a bit relating on existing art...but it comes with an obvious price.

User avatar
Roobar
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 2932
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 16:12

Post by Roobar » Sun Nov 24, 2013 22:14

Nice to see that you're improving. It's your best mod so far.

User avatar
szemi
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 15:19
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Post by szemi » Sun Nov 24, 2013 22:19

wiivn wrote:Nice to see that you're improving. It's your best mod so far.
Wow, thanks! :)
Yeah, piece of cake!

User avatar
troublesomekeen
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1187
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:01
Location: Three-Tooth Lake
Contact:

Post by troublesomekeen » Mon Nov 25, 2013 0:09

The Mad Mushroom patch is quite splendid. I especially like that one.
Oh by the way, in a level called "Computer Room" are these switches suppose to work? They don't operate at all...

Image

The Bloog Bird made me laugh. :helmet

EDIT: Oh. The "Computer Room" is beatable without then need for flipping any switches. Weird. This happens in many levels. I don't like that misleading-ish-ness. The Rabies Rabbit doesn't animate very well. And the long diagonal beams (dangerous tiles) look like they're in the background. If something is dangerous to Keen, it has to be on the same plane.
Last edited by troublesomekeen on Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:15, edited 2 times in total.
Image
Commander Keen in... Canteloupe Quest!

User avatar
Dr.Colossus
Vortininja
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 20:47
Location: Germany

Post by Dr.Colossus » Mon Nov 25, 2013 0:17

I just played this mod and I think it's enjoyable but there are some points that bothered me:

1. The background is sometimes too dominant. So you can't see the hazards well.
Image
2. A level should be restricted by walls.
Image
3. Some Objects doesn't have a "depth" (btw this background is really cool)
Image
Image
4. Why are background lasers deadly?
Image
5. Personally, I expected more from the boss-fight.

6. There are many enemies with just a change of the colour (and minimal modification)
Image

7. Some levels are just corridores

8. Some gems aren't reachable in hard mode.

These points aren't so bad for a fan-mod but there is one last point that really (really, really) bothers me:
9. The name of the mod.
When I played the (unofficial) "The Universe is Toast" trilogy I thought: "WOW, they have the spirit of the originally games. They are amazing!" They have nice new graphics, an excellent level-design, innovative Enemies (especially Keen9) and a story that I could add to the Keen-Canon.

But your mod has none of that.
When I play a mod that call itself "Keen 10" then I expect a lot of it. If you really claim the title "Keen 10" for your mod, then you would have to try harder. Take your time to redesign the levels and the enemies. For example, it took two years until Ceilick has finally released "Keen 9" and the result is bombastic. A mod that should be part of the canon, should also generate such a "WoW feeling" like the unofficial games.
In this mod it seems to me as if you say "hurry, hurry . . . let's finish it . . . next Project . . . I have to claim the Titles Keen 11 & 12 before somebody else does it."

P.S.: This is just my personal opinion about that mod and it is nothing against you.

User avatar
StupidBunny
format c:
Posts: 2116
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 19:19
Location: The Centre of the Moon
Contact:

Post by StupidBunny » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:46

As always, I can't play this just now (I no longer have Commander Keen on my computer with internet on it. :.( ) Looking at the screenshots, I can say that (a) a lot of the new graphics are awesome, and a major improvement on your previous efforts; and (b) a lot of your backgrounds would benefit from reduced contrast. That one that Dr. Colossus emphasized is a bit blinding on account of its mix of dark and light colors (dark blue and yellow, respectively). I tend to be pretty picky about backgrounds, especially in my own mods, and find that it's tricky to make backgrounds which are interesting but also understated enough to dominate the scenery. The opposite problem occurs with the lasers, which apart of course from not entering the foreground at all are lacking in anything, even a black outline, which would make them look more foreground-ey. That background which Dr. Colossus said was cool works really well, because it's got a neat pattern and texture but is simple enough not to crowd out the objects in the foreground. The one with the diamonds and stuff is neat and would work well in a limited/localized sense, like that weird blue tile in some rooms in Keen 5, but as a repeating level background just looks too busy.

This is definitely on my (alarmingly long) list of things to play once I have a chance to.
Image

User avatar
DoomJedi
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 707
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:22
Location: Israel

Post by DoomJedi » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:58

Agree with all the above.

Also those barrels seem just too big to be floating in the air like that....

User avatar
szemi
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 15:19
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Post by szemi » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:46

1. Firstly, you ruined all the fun(respect for the exception!) by critizing it's good, it's bad. It's not this, it's not that, blahblahblah.... Then how do you expect me to be a very good modder? Hmm?
2. It's the initial version ALIAS version 1.0. Not perfect, bugs can be found, etc.
3. I'm not Ceilick.


@ Dr. Colossus: Those are not recolours or minimal changes. Those are the counterparts of Commander Keen, the Shikadi, the Shockshund, the Orbatrix, So quit bothering this!

And sorry, it's not only Keen 10, it's "Mirror Menace"!
These points aren't so bad for a fan-mod but there is one last point that really (really, really) bothers me:
The name of the mod.
When I played the (unofficial) "The Universe is Toast" trilogy I thought: "WOW, they have the spirit of the originally games. They are amazing!" They have nice new graphics, an excellent level-design, innovative Enemies (especially Keen9) and a story that I could add to the Keen-Canon.

But your mod has none of that.
Image

@ troublesomekeen: That Bloog bird is the Gloob, the good counterpart of the Bloog.


P.S. When I wrote these, I was in bad mood.

Now:

I'll fix the bugs and correct some tiles, levels, etc. ;)
Yeah, piece of cake!

User avatar
DoomJedi
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 707
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:22
Location: Israel

Post by DoomJedi » Mon Nov 25, 2013 14:08

Szemi, we love you, dude ! :)
We really do :)

Take it in a good spirit.

I love your mod, it's so Szemi :)

User avatar
szemi
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 15:19
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Post by szemi » Mon Nov 25, 2013 14:19

Good to know. :)

Like I said I'll fix those bugs like I did in Mart4, but I want to keep on Keen Meets the Meats. :)

And Keen 11 & 12 will be better. ;)
Yeah, piece of cake!

User avatar
szemi
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 15:19
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Post by szemi » Mon Nov 25, 2013 19:36

And I even worked hard on this mod, that's why I was gloomy and mad.

But to be honest, I'm not really mad or something, but those, who says Keen 10 isn't really Keen 10 because of its "mini changes, recolours", its episode name, etc., I say: Shame on you! >:

And if I'm not perfect at making super cool tiles, hazards, then it's the end of the world?
If I don't make hyper super levels, it's the end of the world?
Seriously... -.-


And after all I have doubts whether I should make Keen 11 & 12. =/ I don't even feel like Keening at the moment...
Yeah, piece of cake!

mortimer
Blistering Barnacles
Posts: 572
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 13:19
Location: Marlinspike Hall

Post by mortimer » Mon Nov 25, 2013 20:37

szemi wrote:And I even worked hard on this mod
Not sure if that's exactly what you meant... but it amuses me, anyway :crazy
Billions of blue blistering barnacles in a thousand thundering typhoons!

User avatar
DoomJedi
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 707
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:22
Location: Israel

Post by DoomJedi » Mon Nov 25, 2013 21:23

Szemi....we are with you, not against you. We don't say "you suck!" or general remarks like that. We try to point your attention to specific areas that need improvement, feedback is for specific things, not for a mod as a whole. I always say - bad mods - don't get bad feedbacks - they don't get feedbacks at all. So for my mods - any feedback is a good feedback for me. It means people care to respond and feedback.
If we feedback you - it means we care (both about you as a modder and for a particular mod) - and we want to see your to keep improving, which I have no doubt you will. If we wouldn't believe in you - we would just say nothing. I don't spend time on legless person remarking him it'd be better for him to go with legs. Get what I'm sayn'? :)
We said it's your best mod so far - and it's the best feedback one can get. That's the best feedback I'd like to get with my every mod myself.
The only person we should to try to be today better than - it's you yourself - the day before. Remember that.
Yes, "Keen 10" is a big name for a mod and you brought it on yourself in this case...I'd go for a less "expectational" title.

It's frustrating when modders seem to want your honest opinion - but make you scared by their emotional reactions to say what you think.
And yes - I'm fully aware you worked very hard on this mod (and it's shows), and the day after release you want just patting on a shoulder. I released mods too - and know the feeling and sometimes the frustration.
But don't rush reaction and don't take things so personally and out of context - frustrating the ones who care to give a feedback. The feedback was for a particular mod - not for you as a modder.
Are you ready for the truth? If you don't - I'll then say "it's the best Keen mod ever it's flawless!!! OMG!!!" - and leave the thread.

You're my kind of guy, I love your passion for Keen, your creativity, your mapping too, it shows and you have tons of all that. You are very Keenish and channel that spirit.
I'm glad you're part of this modding community.

The only area you seem to be weaker at - is art. Your art lacks (mostly) perspective, color depth, shading. You have great ideas, you really do - but the implementation is lacking. It's just too flat and too toony.
I can easily recognize your mod even without seeing the credits. Artwise. It does look different artwise from mods of more experienced members of this community.

Try to look into art of others to get ideas how to improve your art.

User avatar
szemi
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 15:19
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Post by szemi » Mon Nov 25, 2013 21:32

Now you totally made patient. ;) I'll fix those "problems" as Keen 10-12 has always been my dream.

I'm glad nobody is against me. :D
Yeah, piece of cake!

Post Reply