Commander Kylie

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Plasma Captain
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Post by Plasma Captain » Wed Oct 21, 2015 23:38

GoldenRishi wrote:I actually prefer the latter.
I guess the more that I look at it, it's not as bad as I thought at first.
GoldenRishi wrote:Also, it looks like her belly is under the shirt, I can't tell if that's a belt or her midriff. I might suggest changing the color of the belt or extending the shirt down.
I'm also not sure so I just left it alone. I assume it's her midriff.
GoldenRishi wrote:I still argue that draping hair over her shoulder would also look good and make her hair immediately recognizable as hair.
The only problem is that a ponytail probably wouldn't stay in that position if she's running around. I think this issue could probably be resolved in the running frames, when her head is facing sideways. It could slightly flip about.

(Just to see what it would look like anyway, working quickly, I tried throwing it over her shoulder and it ended up looking like a weird, long tribble. The result was too embarrassingly bad for me to share.)

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Post by Zilem » Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:35

VikingBoyBilly wrote:This is Marta:
Image

I think the most striking difference is the absence of a helmet, leaving more room for hair. Red lips and pink shoes also help establish the gender, but I admit it's cultural cliches. No breasts were needed... I didn't want to put that on an 8-year old :sick
It would seem that i mistook you and wiivn from each other... my bad <.<;

although, this Galaxy version of her looks really great, regardless of the lipstick ;p
Plasma Captain wrote:I... don't believe that I've read through this whole thread, so I don't really know how Zilem feels about people offering advice/help
I didn't ask for either.
Both you and GoldenRishi seem to each have your own interpretation of how a she is supposed to look....

off what "Help" and "Advice" there were a few useful things. anything aside that, is it pretty much just what each of you want to her to look like...
and it just got more and more silly. or maybe it's funny?, let's say it's funny.
as it is pretty clear to me that both your "Suggestions", or whatever you want to call it solely is based on the single frame shown in the thread.
if that wasn't the case i'm pretty sure i would have read it.
Plasma Captain wrote:
GoldenRishi wrote:I still argue that draping hair over her shoulder would also look good and make her hair immediately recognizable as hair.
The only problem is that a ponytail probably wouldn't stay in that position if she's running around. I think this issue could probably be resolved in the running frames, when her head is facing sideways. It could slightly flip about.
Yes, aha, right. erm... Would it be a spoiler to the hair is animated for every where there is movement. be it Running, Jumping, Sliding down, jump shooting, etc.
and have done since the first available version. back in June.
GoldenRishi wrote:
Plasma Captain wrote:
GoldenRishi wrote:Yeah, the helmet may get too much in the way. Perhaps she could have a jersey or something else?
So... she should avoid protecting her skull in favour of looking more feminine? What?
I'm not sure I see that argument. The point of a female character is to be visibly female, I would think. In 4-bit graphics, that's not super easy, so overt ques are sort of necessary.
Removing the Helmet for "Reasons" is very odd when the Helmet is very iconic to the Game. it's like someone is missing the point.

not to mention the "Tuk" sound that happens whenever you jump into a celling



Ceilick wrote:Indeed, I'm interpreting the character as simply a female alternate/representation/whatever for Commander Keen, not necessarily a 'new' character. Essentially, Kylie Blaze eight year old genius, donning her brother's football helmet to become Commander Keen, etc etc. Is this correct, Zilem?

If that's the case, it'd certainly be hard to remove the helmet and still call her Commander Keen. The helmet is iconic. I think PlasmaCaptain has exactly the right idea, subtle cues in the face and body structure, as well as shading, to further the appearance of a girl. Re breasts, torso, etc, I think everything can be accomplished on the default keen sprite by just shading it differently, perhaps with more focus on her waist than chest.
For the most part, yes

I focused a lot on animating the hair, as it were the thing that stock out like a sore eye for me and for a long time i were not satisfied with how it animated.
I may also have misinterpreted some part of the sprites design, because originally both hands are at level rather then skewed
unlike shown on your Lindsey netkeen sprite, where they are skewed
Ceilick wrote:I think the point about Kylie looking overtly like an edited Keen sprite is a strong case here. Obviously, in attempting to make a Commander Keen female alternate, making it different and still Keen is going to be tough. Zilem, you've made great progress so far in differentiating, particularly with clothing, I think with a few more subtle alterations and you'll accomplish your goal.
My goal, for the last few days have been to to get rid of this Flu that have been a massive headache.
and thanks for the encouragement. ^.^
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Post by Plasma Captain » Thu Oct 22, 2015 13:08

Zilem wrote:I didn't ask for either.
Both you and GoldenRishi seem to each have your own interpretation of how a she is supposed to look....

off what "Help" and "Advice" there were a few useful things. anything aside that, is it pretty much just what each of you want to her to look like...
and it just got more and more silly. or maybe it's funny?, let's say it's funny.
as it is pretty clear to me that both your "Suggestions", or whatever you want to call it solely is based on the single frame shown in the thread.
if that wasn't the case i'm pretty sure i would have read it.
All I was trying to do was offer some general spriting tips and demonstrate that one doesn't need to employ overtly stereotypical "feminine" traits in order to make a character appear female (which is where the conversation was going). I am sorry if this was misconstrued in some way, or if some offense was taken.
Zilem wrote:Yes, aha, right. erm... Would it be a spoiler to the hair is animated for every where there is movement. be it Running, Jumping, Sliding down, jump shooting, etc.
and have done since the first available version. back in June.
Yes, I have seen it, I just forgot about it. Mostly I just meant that his "problem" with the hair not being visible would be resolved naturally due to the fact that the character spends most of the time viewed directly from the side.

EDIT:

I guess, in hindsight, I got a little too personal with this because, some months ago, I received similar criticism for the protagonist of a game I'm working on, that she looked too much like a guy or she needed longer hair or she was too "fat". In the process I overstepped a boundary. Sorry again.

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Post by GoldenRishi » Thu Oct 22, 2015 18:30

Zilem wrote:
Plasma Captain wrote:I... don't believe that I've read through this whole thread, so I don't really know how Zilem feels about people offering advice/help
I didn't ask for either.
Both you and GoldenRishi seem to each have your own interpretation of how a she is supposed to look....

off what "Help" and "Advice" there were a few useful things. anything aside that, is it pretty much just what each of you want to her to look like...
and it just got more and more silly. or maybe it's funny?, let's say it's funny.
as it is pretty clear to me that both your "Suggestions", or whatever you want to call it solely is based on the single frame shown in the thread.
if that wasn't the case i'm pretty sure i would have read it.
Plasma Captain wrote:
GoldenRishi wrote:I still argue that draping hair over her shoulder would also look good and make her hair immediately recognizable as hair.
The only problem is that a ponytail probably wouldn't stay in that position if she's running around. I think this issue could probably be resolved in the running frames, when her head is facing sideways. It could slightly flip about.
Yes, aha, right. erm... Would it be a spoiler to the hair is animated for every where there is movement. be it Running, Jumping, Sliding down, jump shooting, etc.
and have done since the first available version. back in June.
GoldenRishi wrote:
Plasma Captain wrote:So... she should avoid protecting her skull in favour of looking more feminine? What?
I'm not sure I see that argument. The point of a female character is to be visibly female, I would think. In 4-bit graphics, that's not super easy, so overt ques are sort of necessary.
Removing the Helmet for "Reasons" is very odd when the Helmet is very iconic to the Game. it's like someone is missing the point.

not to mention the "Tuk" sound that happens whenever you jump into a celling
I think you're being uncharitable, Zilem. The suggestions were meant to be constructive and were not rude or offensive, yet your response is. Fair enough, you don't want people's opinions on your work --messaged received. I won't post on my comments on your projects then.

Best of luck on this project.
(Used to be LordofGlobox)

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Post by Zilem » Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:43

Plasma Captain wrote:All I was trying to do was offer some general spriting tips and demonstrate that one doesn't need to employ overtly stereotypical "feminine" traits in order to make a character appear female (which is where the conversation was going). I am sorry if this was misconstrued in some way, or if some offense was taken.
This is not what offended me, but i did feel a bit force-feed... (but at least i were not drowning in requests...)
as I'm not the kind of person that takes up requests, as i'm either too busy with my own projects or things i want to do

But if you know the "Judging a Book by it's cover" argument, then it should be clear to see where nerves was struck.
Plasma Captain wrote:Yes, I have seen it, I just forgot about it. Mostly I just meant that his "problem" with the hair not being visible would be resolved naturally due to the fact that the character spends most of the time viewed directly from the side.
Oh, well that kind of makes me somewhat sounds like a bitch now, doesn't it?...
what said is said. it's not like we can rewind time.
Plasma Captain wrote:EDIT:
I guess, in hindsight, I got a little too personal with this because, some months ago, I received similar criticism for the protagonist of a game I'm working on, that she looked too much like a guy or she needed longer hair or she was too "fat". In the process I overstepped a boundary. Sorry again.
Huh, interesting. didn't know you were working on a game (if fact i barely know anything about anyone here)
but it is up to you if you want to listen to it. there also is the other side of the coin, that may only show after you have made the change "why did you change it?, i liked it more before the change"

I had a few of those when i have re-worked my Texture mods
and you pretty much have to make up your own mind of what you like the most and stick to that
however it say that you should not leave out the option, if giving options is within your power.
GoldenRishi wrote:I think you're being uncharitable, Zilem. The suggestions were meant to be constructive and were not rude or offensive, yet your response is. Fair enough, you don't want people's opinions on your work --messaged received. I won't post on my comments on your projects then.

Best of luck on this project.
Plasma Captain pointed out several things to you, as i ware not around to do that myself. due to not being in a social mood due to severe headache and pain.
all of it was quoted from this threads first post.

I am open to ideas, if i were not. there would maybe not have been a skirt for Kylie, just pants.
However if i want to go with them or not, is my choice to make.

But If i wanted to make a character that were not meant to be very much Keen like, then it would have been another case.

However If the pony-tail should go over the shoulder, it would be better to leave it static instead of animated.
and since i had already animated it, that would be a downgrade.
But having it animated, how would it (Magically) swing back over the shoulder again at an instant when stopping moving around. that is hot how physics works
and should it be on the Right or left shoulders, as "keens" sprites is mirrored, as regardless what way "keen" face, the light is always coming from the Right side.


Same to you hun.
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Post by Plasma Captain » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:30

Zilem wrote:but it is up to you if you want to listen to it. there also is the other side of the coin, that may only show after you have made the change "why did you change it?, i liked it more before the change"
Yeah, there was pretty much no way I was going to change my character. I had a very specific image in mind. Feminizing her attire/hairstyle and adjusting her form to fit somebody else's standards is completely unnecessary and would deconstruct the character. The comments in this thread were reminding me of that.

So, throughout parts of this topic, when people keep saying that Kylie needs to have her helmet removed and replaced with "feminine" hair, or that she needs a skirt or different clothes, or overt makeup, or her hair is wrong somehow, it kind of irks me. Probably at an unnecessarily personal level. In attempting to prove a point, I upended the point I was trying to make by stepping in and altering the sprite. I acknowledge that I acted in a rude and tactless manner. I would undoubtedly be irritated if somebody altered one of my characters without permission in a situation like this.

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Post by Zilem » Sat Oct 24, 2015 17:45

Plasma Captain wrote:Yeah, there was pretty much no way I was going to change my character. I had a very specific image in mind. Feminizing her attire/hairstyle and adjusting her form to fit somebody else's standards is completely unnecessary and would deconstruct the character. The comments in this thread were reminding me of that.

So, throughout parts of this topic, when people keep saying that Kylie needs to have her helmet removed and replaced with "feminine" hair, or that she needs a skirt or different clothes, or overt makeup, or her hair is wrong somehow, it kind of irks me. Probably at an unnecessarily personal level. In attempting to prove a point, I upended the point I was trying to make by stepping in and altering the sprite. I acknowledge that I acted in a rude and tactless manner. I would undoubtedly be irritated if somebody altered one of my characters without permission in a situation like this.
It pretty much from the very start...
which was not impression i got when lurking around, as I found a canceled W.I.P. character mod, sadly with no download options available.
and i though, that i could make something alike that idea and sat out to do that and put my Bio menace character mod hold as i had technical issues with the mod-tools and the game (sadly Bio menace Episode 1 is the only modable)
i don't believe i have shown it
Image

The thing is also that when "Billy Blaze" puts on the helmet he becomes "Commander Keen"
but if "Commander kylie" took of the helmet then whom would she be.


Also completely forgot that i have Kylie with her pony tail over her shoulder, that i made back in july.
Image
sadly the skirt doesn't seem to work that well for the sprite in level or out in world map
once they are in motion in game then i'm not that satisfied with the Result, to me the pants just looked much better...


I tinkered with what you (Plasma Captain) and Ceilick mentioned
Image -> Image
Not sure about her upper body it looks a bit odd regardless what i tweak
The arm and midriff looks better this way though.
the thing that everything but the head is viewed at an angle, doesn't sit fully right with me...
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Post by VikingBoyBilly » Sat Oct 24, 2015 19:51

The bio menace character blows up all the pleasure receptors in my brain and leaves static, fuzzy electric glowy stuff all over the place.

Please make that bio menace mod.
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Post by szemi » Sat Oct 24, 2015 20:17

VikingBoyBilly wrote:The bio menace character blows up all the pleasure receptors in my brain and leaves static, fuzzy electric glowy stuff all over the place.
Somebody seems to be "excited". :)
Yeah, piece of cake!

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Post by Zilem » Sun Oct 25, 2015 18:17

szemi wrote:
VikingBoyBilly wrote:The bio menace character blows up all the pleasure receptors in my brain and leaves static, fuzzy electric glowy stuff all over the place.
Somebody seems to be "excited". :)
Sure seems like it, not something i expected to see...

I have not canceled it, i just put on hold for time being.
the frames are done, but some tweaking may be needed, as i ware unable to properly test them before.
none of the the Portrait and Splashes are finished.
also i have to decide between the shorts being Blue or green with brown camouflage.
and i have no idea how to change the dialog.

I will see if i can have it finished before 2016
but a bit hard to say as the Final Chapter of Starcraft II and Fallout 4 is coming around soon 2 Games i have waited along time for, so they will likely take a lot of my time doing November/December (and beyond). not modding, but playing.


I also have been tinkering with the idea of making kylie available for Mods
which you may call a Mod for a Mod and will require the other mod
amongst them:

"Commander Keen - The Terror from Outer Space"
Since i love, Aliens (Movie) and Dead Space (Game) and just hits that sweet spot.

"Commander Keen 7-9 - The universe is Toast"
well what can i say they are pretty amazing

But naturally the first thing is to Finish re-tweaking Kylie
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Post by szemi » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:20

Don't forget about my Grand Intelligence trilogy.
Yeah, piece of cake!

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Post by troublesomekeen » Mon Oct 26, 2015 20:20

Skin mod for mods? Pretty radical idea, oh man. Better make them also into levelpacks, too.
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Commander Keen in... Canteloupe Quest!

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Post by Zilem » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:29

szemi wrote:Don't forget about my Grand Intelligence trilogy.
The "Invasion of the Vorticons"?
as i can only find 2 for "Galaxy"
> The Grand Intelligence IV, which kind of makes it a quadrilogy ~.^
> Keen 10: Mirror Menace

But to be honest i have not look that much into Mods for Keen 1-3, i guess i should
the first i played Was Episode 4 and a Demo of episode 6 and Duke Nukem, Cosmos, Jill of the jungle
and some others i forgot about that all came on my parents computer as shareware.
so i have mainly looked into Keen Galaxy mods.

hmmm, your Episode 10... kind of gives me some ideas.
troublesomekeen wrote:Skin mod for mods? Pretty radical idea, oh man. Better make them also into levelpacks, too.
I'd rather someone, with more experience in making Levels worked on Level designs
Map and sprite are individual packages, but sadly map tiles are part of the sprite packages rather then map packages...

I have only really worked with Maps for Jetpack, StarCraft, Warcraft III. but that is more then a decade ago, and thus i doubt my ability in making worthwhile levels.
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Post by Keening_Product » Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:21

Zilem wrote:Also completely forgot that i have Kylie with her pony tail over her shoulder, that i made back in july.
Image
I like this. Good stuff.
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Post by Plasma Captain » Sat Oct 31, 2015 0:16

That Bio Menace character looks awesome.

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