Zoltan Demo

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Levellass
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Zoltan Demo

Post by Levellass »

Because a lot of what I'm doing in the Zoltan game is untested and to be frank, probably poor quality, I've decided to release one of the levels as a playable demo, a-la my minimod, so that people can give me feedback on what I'm doing wrong and if I'm doing anything right.

This IS a beta, so expect plenty of weird bugs. I want as much feedback on this as possible, so I can fix any problems people have. Note that the demo is a big file (500Kb!) so don't download it too much or the Patch Index will crash. ( I need a place with more bandwidth!)

Get it here: http://levellord.toxicsheep.com/demo.zip


So... comments on this little effort?
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Commander Spleen
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Post by Commander Spleen »

Oh, wow. I'm about to go to sleep, but after giving this a quick shot it's certainly looking most decent. The enemies appear to be thoroughly patched, so I'll have to read up on their quirks in the tasty looking help menu in the morrow before tackling it again. Once I do, feedback shall be forthcoming.
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tulip
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Post by tulip »

Graphics: Very good, one can see you spent a lot of time on them. A bit too dark in atmosphere for my taste.

Monsters: Seemed a bit unbalanced (meaning only hard monsters to be avoided at all cost). Mostly you die several times before knowing how to handle those things, the flying ones from the holes were a bit plenty for my taste. (I played on normal). And the floating mine behaviour is a bit strange (it floats up and down a while, so that Keen could by no means pass it, but just when I was about to give up, it suddenly flew higher (!?), thus letting me pass. But the patching was extremely creative.

Leveldesign: Very confusing. I liked the Jazz Jackrabbit pipes but I'm generally not a fan of too many secret passages. It reminded me a bit of your Christmas mod with Tzen in which I also never knew where I was and what I was supposed to do. I'm still not sure how to pass this level without the jumpcheat.

General remarks: You shouldn't prevent the player from looking down (assuming you disabled that on purpose), what with all the spiked pits you got going, and don't lure the player into a pit with some ice cream, I think we heard that often enough, nobody enjoys that.

And yes there are still a whole bunch of bugs:
- a Keen 4 spade coming out of nowhere in the lower right of the level
- when you jump down to the pipe seemingly leading to the Treasure Eater replacement, you can't jump out, neither can you die there
- one of the two crashing platforms is not coming up again, it stays stuck in the ground
- The secret room with the popsicles and the door was impossible to leave without dying, the door was no door.

What I like most: The graphics, especially the trees and the nature tiles.

What I like least: The feeling that I got tricked into an unforseeable death too many times.
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VikingBoyBilly
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Post by VikingBoyBilly »

Pretty interesting that this game has completely 2D graphics, unlike the usual Keen 4-6 style of having a slightly angled, isometric view.
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Post by Mink »

Wow, that's the biggest patch file I've ever seen! All of the behavior altering patches are simply wonderful, and I wouldn't expect anything less from the Patch Master. At first, I wasn't able to even tell what the original enemies had been modified into. My favorite enemy so far is probably the hadron (bluebird replacement?). I just love how they come out of the alarm shaft. A close contender is the baryon (slug?) with its cute backward shuffle and temporary invincibility. I really liked the names (it seems you raided a physics textbook for these), but they seem completely interchangeable. That is, most of the names don't really seem to fit the enemies all that well.

The graphics are top notch, and I love how you worked in some of the XkyKeen4 enemies (the backstory about Xky being hired by Zoltan is hilarious). Was the tau created by you or Ceilick, and was it intended for this or DITD?

I think the relative low point was the level design. Although I loved the pipes (indeed, I have something almost exactly like these in my puzzle pack, and now it'll look like I just copied you) the level felt slightly aimless/confusing and was actually rather short once I discovered the door to take Keen back outside.

Aside from the bugs Tulip mentioned, I only noticed a few:
-If Keen falls into the water below the red gem while touching the right wall, he gets pushed into the area with the muon (treasure eater?).
-Proofread the help screen. There were quite a few spelling mistakes.
Overall, excellent work. I can't wait to see the rest of it. :drool
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Post by Ceilick »

The Snoz/Tau has actually been in existence for many years. I had originally drawn it for the fangame "The Lost Oracle" way back in the day.

Years later, after that project faded, I incorporated it into 'Dead in the Desert' and, during my temporary leave from teh community, had made that early version of DitD public. Levellass then used my then abandoned work in her mod, but my return to the project kind of threw a wrench in things (she had also used platforms, points, and other things). So now I'm trying to design some new enemies, points, etc for her since i came back and selfishly asked to have all my graphics back :o

After playtesting, this was actually the first time I read the story and other parts. Excellent work there, and the reference to 'mad man xky' are hilarious :)

The area with the treasure eater/muon is escapable with the impossible pogo trick.

The level design is tricky, particularly because it seems there are multiple routes to do things. The arrows help a little, but i still haven't managed to find out what to do after the first elevator ride. Still trying though :)

Edit: mentioned this to Levellass, thought i'd point it out here incase anyone else can expand on it: Many of the secret passages are either shortcuts or lead to large hidden rooms. For me, these are little disorienting (not that I wouldnt mind the occasional use of them). Do other people like this or prefer the short "hidden behind platform" secrets without leading to a whole other room?

Also, theres not enough amo in this level! I have to use the item cheat beforehand just to be able to get anywhere ;)
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Post by _mr_m_ »

Nice work so far! I like the pipes that transport Keen-- a definite throwback to Jazz Jackrabbit! I assume that was done with patches? Or possibly abusing the behaviours of the Keen enter/exit water tiles?

I lost count of how many secret areas I found..plus the Crystal Caves/Secret Agent/Duke Nukem I/Cosmo style points are neat!

I like what I see in what you have done, and hopefully we'll all get to see more of what you have to show!

As a note, I had to use the no clipping cheat on the world map to see what you've added...Either I'm full of ****, or did I inspire some elements of that map, like the bridge and 'cliffs'? Either way, I like that addition of it, and might have to redraw my bridge tiles to polish them up a bit.
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Post by Snortimer »

Is there actually a way to pass that red door? I got stuck pretty early on. And died way too many times.

I'd have to say that:

-yes, the graphics are also too dark (especially greyish) for my taste
-interesting and creative enemy behaviour, but yes... you might be trying a little too hard with making them difficult... there need to be easy enemies too, especially at the beginning of a level. The harder enemies should be guarding something important.

Regarding level design, I don't think I've seen enough of the level to really say much... however, the very fact that I got stuck so early on is probably not a good sign.

To quote something I said a little while earlier about logical level design, after Ceilick asked me to define it:
Basically, it means that I always know what I've done and what I can do next. I'm given a few paths (even just one), and in those paths there are several concrete obstacles to be overcome. Once those obstacles are overcome, there is a reward, which opens up a new, easy-to-find path. As opposed to being lost, wandering around a level that gives too many paths from the beginning, has obstacles that are more random than deliberate, doesn't give rewards for passing them, etc.
At the moment, what you have seems to be impressive in many ways, but if I had to be honest, it also wasn't much fun to play.

Or I just give up too easily. :p
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Post by Mr. 314 »

loved the way you put in referneces to the fact that they gave up keen for duke nukem, and that fan film on youtube 'the teenage years' like it a lot, cant wait to see if anything else comes of this :)
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Post by Commander Spleen »

Snortimer: You might be interested to head over to Keen:Modding and participate in the Keen 1 level design discussion, as we've touched on logical level progression and you may be able to contribute some fresh thoughts on the matter.
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Post by Syllypryde »

The graphics and patching are excellent. As far as level desgin goes, if you want to make your levels confusing, you might not want to make it so easy to leave the level. Otherwise, many players will just take the easy way out and will not explore!
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Post by Levellass »

- a Keen 4 spade coming out of nowhere in the lower right of the level
A... WHAT?

- when you jump down to the pipe seemingly leading to the Treasure Eater replacement, you can't jump out, neither can you die there
More something for the beta testers, but fixed anyway.
- one of the two crashing platforms is not coming up again, it stays stuck in the ground
Hmmmn, you're right, I should have it crash offscreen, like in Slug Village.
- The secret room with the popsicles and the door was impossible to leave without dying, the door was no door.
You don't poke around much do you? Some walls can be walked through, but I suppose I should add a door, just to be complete. I have also enabled down looking, and disabled the impossible bullet trick.
I really liked the names (it seems you raided a physics textbook for these), but they seem completely interchangeable. That is, most of the names don't really seem to fit the enemies all that well.
Oh but they DO, if you know a little physics. Oh, and Greek. This is what happens when your tutor is also a Keen fan.
Proofread the help screen. There were quite a few spelling mistakes.
Don't I just know it, that's an old, OLD draft, and shall be almost completely discarded. Believe nothing you read in it. ;p
After playtesting, this was actually the first time I read the story and other parts. Excellent work there, and the reference to 'mad man xky' are hilarious
Initially he was an enemy, a living bobble-head doll. I still have the graphics somewhere.
Also, theres not enough amo in this level! I have to use the item cheat beforehand just to be able to get anywhere Wink
Yep, or be very careful, It's level 4 though, so you get a bit more ammo in earlier levels.
Nice work so far! I like the pipes that transport Keen-- a definite throwback to Jazz Jackrabbit! I assume that was done with patches? Or possibly abusing the behaviours of the Keen enter/exit water tiles?
Solid tiles will 'push' Keen out of themselves (fullclip subroutine), and so a tile that can be entered (Has one side not blocking) will let Keen enter it, then push him out in the same direction. A lot of these together will be a 'sucker' tube. It's also possible to make him get sucked upwards if you're careful. Level 5 has magnets that do the same thing, and level 6 has fans, which are somewhat more tame.
As a note, I had to use the no clipping cheat on the world map to see what you've added...Either I'm full of ****, or did I inspire some elements of that map, like the bridge and 'cliffs'? Either way, I like that addition of it, and might have to redraw my bridge tiles to polish them up a bit.
Sorry, that map is MONTHS old, heck, maybe even years now. The current map has... a lot more tiles. And an airship. It still looks just as flat and uninspired though.
Is there actually a way to pass that red door? I got stuck pretty early on. And died way too many times.
You'd think people would try the unblocked way and get the gem, but I guess not. To hell with it, you know, I give up. I can't do levels, not at all,t hey are an unending failure. Maybe I'll just do the graphics and pass them on to someone who wants to make a levelpack.

Yes, anyone who wants to take over this mod is quite welcome. A mod is nothing without levels and I just can't do them.
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Post by shikadi »

because the one you showed is a confusing level?
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tulip
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Post by tulip »

The secret room with the popsicles and the door was impossible to leave without dying, the door was no door.
You don't poke around much do you? Some walls can be walked through, but I suppose I should add a door, just to be complete.
I want to see you leave that room without dying. I'm aware that you can jump through some walls, that's how I got in anyway, but as soon as I touch the jump button Keen dies from the spikes on the ceiling.
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Post by Commander Spleen »

Don't pass up the mod just because of levels. The mod is imaginative and enticing. You just need to let the levels breathe more and make sure that the players are introduced to new features before they find their way into a puzzle. We all had to learn to pogo and shoot once, and so we need to learn to deal with your new creatures and nifty level elements.

And don't think of it as a failure if you feel you need someone else to do some levels for you (or take your existing ones and make them less confusing to unfamiliar eyes).

I'm still yet to give it a proper go, so I can't offer any specific feedback yet. Soon, very soon.
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