The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Here is where to post about the latest Commander Keen fangame or modification you've finished, a new website you've made, or another Keen-related creation.
User avatar
Syllypryde
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 18:33
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Post by Syllypryde »

K1n9_Duk3 wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 23:21 I just added Mirror Menace and Underworld Ultimate.

Underworld Ultimate only had its crippling bugs fixed. The difficulty i still the same, although the changes I made to the scrolling while Keen is floating should make some areas a little less frustrating. I haven't actually finished my playthrough, so if anybody can point out specific areas and/or enemies that need to be changed to make this mod a bit more enjoyable, let me know!

By the way, the bugfixed version of Underworld Ultimate finally allows you to collect all the booze bottles. In the old version, you actually "lose" the bottle from level 3 once the base appears on the world map, and the final booze bottle can only be obtained after the base appears.

Keep in mind that old saved games are incompatible with this update!
I have four different issues with this mod. Only three I would classify as bugs. The fourth is more or less a design flaw in enemy behavior.

1- You already fixed the booze bottle issue so I will move on.

2- For me the game completely locks up when I try to load in-level saved games after I have exited the game and reload it later to play again.

3- The Kreeg Base is supposed to be invisible and unreachable until Keen's second visit to Drea's Domain makes the base appear. For me the base seems to always be visible regardless of where I am at in the game.

4- When the Kreeg infantry shoot their lasers cover almost the entire screen! Add to that their behavior is so erratic and so unpredictable it makes it almost impossible to get past them. It seems to me only dumb luck is required to get past them. Also add to that they can only be briefly "stunned" makes them even more difficult.
K1n9_Duk3 wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 23:21The Mirror Menace update is a bit unusual compared to the other updates in this thread. I actually broke my own rule here and changed the level designs a lot more in order to eliminate all parts that could lead to the player being stuck in an unwinnable state in the level. And I also changed a couple of other things in an attempt to make the levels a little less unfair to first-time players. I don't really consider myself a level designer, but I hope I didn't make things worse than they were before.

Again, old saved games are incompatible with this update!
My issues with this mod:

1) The infamous elevator bug, nothing more needs to be said about this so I will move on.

2) The reason the mod is so unfair to first-time players is because after its initial release Szemi made several hazards harmless in order to make the mod "easier" but in reality it just added to the confusion. Toxic waste is a perfect example. Sometimes it's harmless, other times it kills Keen. Many hazards are like this. Since I haven't played this mod in over a year, possibly longer if I played it now I would probably be confused as to what kills Keen and what doesn't. Even several objects in the background strangely will kill Keen.

3) As Szemi did in The Grand Intelligence 4- Intelligent Intellect, out of left field with a hockey stick and at completely random he placed enemies from past games in his mod. First-time players would think they are deadly and would avoid them which causes issues in and of itself until you realize they are harmless. These characters are completely random and are unnecessary to be included in the game, especially when they cannot be touched. They are nothing more than moving background scenery. Taking them out would probably solve any memory issues.

4) When you say "Unwinnable states" you might be referring to required levels that have required areas within the level that can only be reached by secret areas or secret passages. For example if I remember correctly, there is a level where the blue gem is only reachable via a secret passage. If the player cannot find the passage, the level seems unsolvable.

5) Szemi seems unwilling to address not only issues with Mirror Menace and other past mods but also issues with newer mods as they are released. He seems to get defensive and act as if we're all haters when we critique his work. Sometimes I wonder if he doesn't know the distinction between constructive criticism and "being a hater". Granted, most of our critiques come down to personal tastes, but when there are actual issues and bugs that can deter the enjoyment of the game he created, refusing to address these issues can not only make us not want to play a specific mod but can also make us not want to play anything he might release in the future.

---

People make mistakes and modders are no different. It isn't hateful to address these issues. Most modders seem to want to create games that the whole of the Keen community will play. Many even go as far as creating an open discussion here and allowing the rest of us to discuss how the mod should go. This is a discussion board after all!
Last edited by Syllypryde on Sat Jan 02, 2021 22:14, edited 2 times in total.
What is Directive X_M?
User avatar
K1n9_Duk3
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:30
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Post by K1n9_Duk3 »

Syllypryde wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:252- For me the game completely locks up when I try to load in-level saved games after I have exited the game and reload it later to play again.

3- The Kreeg Base is supposed to be invisible and unreachable until Keen's second visit to Drea's Domain makes the base appear. For me the base seems to always be visible regardless of where I am at in the game.
I guess you're referring to the old version here? I fixed tons of memory-corrupting bugs in the patch file, and the memory corruption might be the reason why you couldn't load your saved games anymore. Would be nice to hear if that problem is fixed or if you're still having issues with this.

Yes, the Kreeg Base is supposed to be invisible. But it is only invisible when the first level (Mushroom Mines) has been completed. So if you start a new game and noclip your way to the base, it will always be there. If you beat level 1 and then noclip to that area, the base should be gone. Getting your mind expanded for the second time actually sets the "level 1 completed" variable back to 0 and that's what makes the base appear (again). The very same change also caused you to lose the gold booze bottle from level 3, because the bottle only counts as collected when the "level 1 completed" variable is set to 2 (finishing level 1 would only set the variable to 1 and you have to finish level 1 before you can do anything else).

Something else I wanted to point out: Finishing the highscore level makes the tunnel appear, that's why I have removed that level from the world map in the updated version. Finishing the "other game" secret level removes a barrier from the world map. That barrier was supposed to be removed after collecting the three green gems and then visiting the Great Seal. This minor bug is actually still present in my updated version.


When I mentioned unwinnable states in Mirror Menace, I was mostly referring to button & bridge "puzzles" that could make the level unwinnable if you hit the buttons in the wrong order. And the boss level had an area that you couldn't leave if you got there before killing the boss and getting the key from him. There might be more, I honestly don't remember all of the changes I've made to the levels.

I'm not going to blame Szemi too much for using harmless versions of monsters that are indeed harmful in the official Keen games. His mods are set in a mirror universe, so this (kind of) makes sense to me. The problem is that most Keen players think these monsters behave just like their counterparts from Keen 4-6 and either shoot or avoid them right away, which means they might never learn what these monsters actually can and cannot do in this mod. It might have worked better for people who haven't played the original Keens, but those people usually don't play Keen mods.

On the other hand, creating a mod that is designed to do the opposite of what the target audience expects is either an extremely dumb move or a brilliant one. Take your pick.

Anyway, I thank you for your detailed feedback on the faults of Mirror Menace, but I don't think I will be doing any further balancing work on this one. The only reason why I released this update is that I've seen a couple of posts by people who seemed interested in playing this. They shouldn't have to play a broken version just because the original author can't be bothered to fix it. After all, Bernie did pretty much the same thing with Underworld Ultimate, didn't he?
Hail to the K1n9, baby!
http://k1n9duk3.shikadi.net
User avatar
DarkAle
Vortininja
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 17:40
Location: Magic City
Contact:

Re: The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Post by DarkAle »

I'm playing Keen 7 and I found this
Image

When the key(Council Member replacement) reaches the ledge it stops there like in this old Foray in the Forest video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTAcqr87aT4
Commander Keen in... Robot Attack!
Episode 13: The Ultra Omegamatic viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6802
Episode 14: Secret of the Sorcerer viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6837
User avatar
K1n9_Duk3
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:30
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Post by K1n9_Duk3 »

DarkAle wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:52When the key(Council Member replacement) reaches the ledge it stops there
That's actually a standard Keen 4 bug. The Council Member has a random chance of stopping and standing still for a moment. If it decides to stop right as it is about to walk off a ledge, it will get stuck floating in the air, constantly turning back and forth. This bug is rare and definitely not a game-breaking glitch. But it would be easy to fix.

A similar thing can happen with the slugs. If they decide to start pooping right as they are about to walk off a ledge (or hit a wall) they will play the pooping sound and animation, but without actually leaving a puddle behind.
Hail to the K1n9, baby!
http://k1n9duk3.shikadi.net
User avatar
Syllypryde
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 18:33
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Post by Syllypryde »

K1n9_Duk3 wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 22:22 I guess you're referring to the old version here? I fixed tons of memory-corrupting bugs in the patch file, and the memory corruption might be the reason why you couldn't load your saved games anymore. Would be nice to hear if that problem is fixed or if you're still having issues with this.
At the time I read your post I wasn't sure which version of this mod I had. I went back and I have Beta V1 which according to the Keen Wiki is Bernie's current version. Before I download your fixed version I wanted to play around with the version I have to see if the game behaves how you said it would. You were right for the most part. I'll discuss in a bit where the deviations occur. It might be a bit before I download your fixed version so it might take awhile before I can get back to you on whether or not these memory corrupting bugs are indeed fixed.
Yes, the Kreeg Base is supposed to be invisible. But it is only invisible when the first level (Mushroom Mines) has been completed. So if you start a new game and noclip your way to the base, it will always be there. If you beat level 1 and then noclip to that area, the base should be gone. Getting your mind expanded for the second time actually sets the "level 1 completed" variable back to 0 and that's what makes the base appear (again). The very same change also caused you to lose the gold booze bottle from level 3, because the bottle only counts as collected when the "level 1 completed" variable is set to 2 (finishing level 1 would only set the variable to 1 and you have to finish level 1 before you can do anything else).
When I started a brand new game I no-clipped to the Kreeg Base and as you said it was visible. After I completed the first level Mushroom Mines I no-clipped again to the base and yes, it was now invisible. However, any level that I completed after that the base was visible again for the rest of the game, regardless of what levels or how many levels I completed. So it might seem that the "level 1 completed" variable you spoke of sets back to zero after any other level instead of at the 2nd Drea's Domain like it is supposed to.

As for the gold booze bottles, I only lost a bottle when I collected a bottle in another level other then level 3 and died without in-level saving. If I did save between collecting the bottle and dying, I would still have the bottle when I reloaded from my save point and still had it after I completed the level. With in-level saving I was able to keep all my bottles, but die without it and I lost 1 bottle. Standard Secret level Stuff which is the secret level you can access once you collect all the bottles and a portal opens at the Fountain, this level is not only ridiculously hard but close to half the level seems unreachable. I am not saying that a level can never have an unreachable section here and there, but for the time that these modders spend on creating a level it seems a serious waste of their time and creativity to create half a level that people cannot even play.
Something else I wanted to point out: Finishing the highscore level makes the tunnel appear, that's why I have removed that level from the world map in the updated version. Finishing the "other game" secret level removes a barrier from the world map. That barrier was supposed to be removed after collecting the three green gems and then visiting the Great Seal. This minor bug is actually still present in my updated version.
I never knew this was possible in either of these scenarios but they did indeed happen when I replayed them. I do understand why you removed the high scores level. In a past mod, Aliens Ate My Babysitter... Again! You can actually play the High Scores level, have points to collect, enemies to dodge etc. But in Bernie's the level is completely empty and the only place to exit the level is right where you start at the top left corner. Once Keen drops down the only way to exit is the F10-E cheat. This level is pointless and the fact that it allows you to cheat by opening the tunnel early makes it a liability to the game. Completing Some Other Game opening up the path at the Great Seal does happen and is a liability to the game as well because it can allow the player to cheat and get past it without having all 3 shards. Some Other Game does have a purpose (though very little) while the High Scores serves none at all.

Update: I downloaded your fixed version and all the issues discussed are fixed. Thank you!
What is Directive X_M?
User avatar
K1n9_Duk3
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:30
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Post by K1n9_Duk3 »

Syllypryde wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 15:16 As for the gold booze bottles, I only lost a bottle when I collected a bottle in another level other then level 3 and died without in-level saving. If I did save between collecting the bottle and dying, I would still have the bottle when I reloaded from my save point and still had it after I completed the level. With in-level saving I was able to keep all my bottles, but die without it and I lost 1 bottle.
Actually, you shouldn't lose any of the gold booze bottles at all (except for the glitch I mentioned earlier). If you die after collecting the bottle, that bottle should stay collected (and won't be spawned again when you restart the level).

With all the memory-corrupting bugs in the old version of this mod, it's hard to tell what sort of glitches you might have experienced. It's definitely possible that some memory corruption caused you to lose some gold booze bottles. Since the gold booze bottles are also stored in the "level done" array, the memory corruption could also be the reason why the hidden base appeared earlier than it should have while you were testing.
Syllypryde wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 15:16 Standard Secret level Stuff which is the secret level you can access once you collect all the bottles and a portal opens at the Fountain, this level is not only ridiculously hard but close to half the level seems unreachable. I am not saying that a level can never have an unreachable section here and there, but for the time that these modders spend on creating a level it seems a serious waste of their time and creativity to create half a level that people cannot even play.
That's an oversight in the level design. The door that appears when you place the grey gem was supposed to take you to the top right corner of the map instead of making you exit the level. But Bernie placed the destination coordinates where the door would appear instead of placing them on the door tiles that will be copied into the level when the door appears. This meant that the coordinates were erased when the door appeared, making the door teleport Keen to 0,0 and thus ending the level. I'll fix that for the next update.

I think it's possible that Bernie didn't playtest this secret level at all. You can't access the level with the warp cheat and it was (almost) impossible to reach this level legitimately. It has definitely seen less polishing than the rest of the mod, if that's even possible.
Hail to the K1n9, baby!
http://k1n9duk3.shikadi.net
User avatar
Syllypryde
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 18:33
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Post by Syllypryde »

K1n9_Duk3 wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 0:51Anyway, I thank you for your detailed feedback on the faults of Mirror Menace, but I don't think I will be doing any further balancing work on this one. The only reason why I released this update is that I've seen a couple of posts by people who seemed interested in playing this. They shouldn't have to play a broken version just because the original author can't be bothered to fix it. After all, Bernie did pretty much the same thing with Underworld Ultimate, didn't he?
Actually I had completely forgotten about Bernie refusing to fix this mod, and also repeatedly telling people to go ahead and report bugs because he didn't care anymore. He also went as far as to saying he regretted modding both games and modding ruined his life. He claimed by the time he was almost done with Underworld Ultimate he didn't care anymore and rushed to finish it and that is why more of the later levels were buggy. But he made it crystal clear he had no intention of fixing it. I doubt he play tested the later levels as well as Standard Secret Level Stuff because they seem so ridiculously hard as well as next to impossible and that is on easy!

For research purposes I went back to the Underworld Ultimate thread to not only remember what Bernie posted but my own posts as well. I reported the Kreeg base and booze bottle glitches back then. The base was doing the same thing that I reported to you but the bottle was happening differently than what I reported to you.

Strangely enough he did come back a several years later and decided to tweek The Ruins of Roib. I had posted in this thread back in September. Someone had asked if anyone were able to beat Keen58 and Keen59 without in-level saving. I had responded that I completed both mods without in-level saving on easy, and used it several times on normal. I had also said how I couldn't get past 4-5 levels on hard in both games. There must have been a time where I was getting the hang of each mod because when I first discussed them at the time of each of their releases I did in fact talk about how hard they were. When I played the older version Keen59 just before I downloaded your fixed version I had a great deal of trouble completing most of the levels, even with massive in-level saving. I must been rusty!

Actually, you shouldn't lose any of the gold booze bottles at all (except for the glitch I mentioned earlier). If you die after collecting the bottle, that bottle should stay collected (and won't be spawned again when you restart the level).

With all the memory-corrupting bugs in the old version of this mod, it's hard to tell what sort of glitches you might have experienced. It's definitely possible that some memory corruption caused you to lose some gold booze bottles. Since the gold booze bottles are also stored in the "level done" array, the memory corruption could also be the reason why the hidden base appeared earlier than it should have while you were testing.
Apparently back when the mod was first released I was losing the bottle at the 2nd Drea's Domain rather than dying without in-level saving. The change in what was causing the glitch is a mystery to me, or possible memory corruption as you were just saying.
That's an oversight in the level design. The door that appears when you place the grey gem was supposed to take you to the top right corner of the map instead of making you exit the level. But Bernie placed the destination coordinates where the door would appear instead of placing them on the door tiles that will be copied into the level when the door appears. This meant that the coordinates were erased when the door appeared, making the door teleport Keen to 0,0 and thus ending the level. I'll fix that for the next update.

I think it's possible that Bernie didn't playtest this secret level at all. You can't access the level with the warp cheat and it was (almost) impossible to reach this level legitimately. It has definitely seen less polishing than the rest of the mod, if that's even possible.
This is what I wrote to Bernie about this level back in December of 2014:
In Standard Secret Level Stuff almost the entire left side of the level is unreachable, the level is ridiculously difficult, there are two goblins right above where you get the gray gem, but they turn you into clocks, candles and urns almost endlessly, so you end up frozen from 1-10 minutes straight and even if you happen to get the chance to move, you have to jump stalagmites and more times than not the goblins will zap you as you are jumping over forcing you to land on them. This level is almost not worth playing. Even when you go to the unreachable left side by cheating, even then, it is ridiculously difficult.
I wouldn't say it is almost impossible to reach this level legitimately. Once you understand the theme of Cave of Secrets getting the bottle there is not that difficult. In Temple of Om a very well hidden yellow gem is required to make a ledge appear to reach the bottle there. In Machined Chasm there is an opening in the rock were the bottle is hidden. You don't need to shoot a wall to make an opening. You just need to find the secret passage that leads to it. Just a bit off topic, there is a switch in the level that seems to do nothing. It is located right next to an extra life. In Base Station the bottle is located at the top of the Quarters. The trick here is to find out how to get to the the 2 switches to activate the hover poles, then fend off several Kreeg ships by the bottle. The garden gnome will give you the last bottle. All you need to do is release the dust mite located in McZazgag's
What is Directive X_M?
User avatar
K1n9_Duk3
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:30
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Post by K1n9_Duk3 »

Syllypryde wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:12I wouldn't say it is almost impossible to reach this level legitimately.
My point was that you had to get your mind extended again by visiting Drea's Domain a second time in order to make the base appear. You can't reach McZazgag's without making the base appear, which means you can't get the final bottle before the base appears. But since making the base appear caused you to lose the bottle from level 3 in Bernie's version, it was impossible to get to that secret level legitimately. Memory corruption and other oversights might have interfered with this, that's why I wrote "(almost) impossible".

I had to invest quite some time to figure out the intended level progression and which conditions lock or unlock other parts of the game, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to fix anything in this mod. Messing with code and mechanics that you don't fully understand would lead to a broken mess, and the whole point of this project was to fix bugs, not to create new ones.
Syllypryde wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:12 Strangely enough he did come back a several years later and decided to tweek The Ruins of Roib. I had posted in this thread back in September. Someone had asked if anyone were able to beat Keen58 and Keen59 without in-level saving.
Did he really come back? The last time Bernie posted something in the release threads of his mods was in December 2014, which was several years after his first post in the release thread for Roib, but only about 6 Months after the release of Underworld. His latest/last post was in the Atroxian Realm release thread back in January 2016. His PCKF account hasn't been used since then. I posted a bunch of bugfixes for Roib back in 2019, maybe you are misremembering that as Bernie coming back to fix his mod? The most recent version of Roib on the KeenWiki is an unofficial version that's using my fixes from 2019.

By the way, that someone who asked if anybody ever actually managed to beat this mod without cheating, that was me. I was asking because I was playtesting Roib for this bugfix project and hit a brick wall with the difficulty in the "Upper Roib" levels.


Regarding Standard Secret Level Stuff in Keen 59, I would probably move the goblins down into the passage that leads to the key, so that you can actually stun them before trying to jump over the hazards in that passage. I could also adjust the spell casting frequency of the goblins, but even if they cast the spells less frequently you'd still have the RNG deciding whether you die or not when trying to jump over those hazards.
Hail to the K1n9, baby!
http://k1n9duk3.shikadi.net
User avatar
Syllypryde
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 18:33
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Post by Syllypryde »

K1n9_Duk3 wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 23:28My point was that you had to get your mind extended again by visiting Drea's Domain a second time in order to make the base appear. You can't reach McZazgag's without making the base appear, which means you can't get the final bottle before the base appears. But since making the base appear caused you to lose the bottle from level 3 in Bernie's version, it was impossible to get to that secret level legitimately. Memory corruption and other oversights might have interfered with this, that's why I wrote "(almost) impossible".
I guess this is where the miscommunication comes in. You were referring to it being almost impossible in its buggy state and I was referring to it not being almost impossible when it works as intended.
Did he really come back? The last time Bernie posted something in the release threads of his mods was in December 2014, which was several years after his first post in the release thread for Roib, but only about 6 Months after the release of Underworld. His latest/last post was in the Atroxian Realm release thread back in January 2016. His PCKF account hasn't been used since then. I posted a bunch of bugfixes for Roib back in 2019, maybe you are misremembering that as Bernie coming back to fix his mod? The most recent version of Roib on the KeenWiki is an unofficial version that's using my fixes from 2019.
The Ruins of Roib was released in May 2013. Bernie upgraded it to Beta V.2 the next month in June after various people reported several irregularities. As we both have said his last post in that thread was December 2014. He spent close to six months corresponding with Keeners and addressing their issues. He upgraded it a second time at some point between June and December of 2013. He was gone for a year and then came back briefly in December 2014, made a few posts and then gone again. So did Bernie come back? Yes he did. Did he fix issues in that brief time? No he did not. Since you claim that it was you and not him who created Beta V.3, then Bernie must have just updated Beta V.2 with his fixes instead of upgrading to V.3. The fact you found more bugs in Roib tells me he obviously didn't fix everything or quite possibly his 'fixes' might have created more problems. This is what I meant by Bernie 'coming back'. He came back, posted his update, made a few posts and POOF he was gone again.

So his last post was in the Atroxian Realm thread in January 2016? Gridlock released AR on January 15th 2016. So Bernie's last post(s) in this thread were clearly to discuss his opinions of the new release, then gone again.
By the way, that someone who asked if anybody ever actually managed to beat this mod without cheating, that was me. I was asking because I was playtesting Roib for this bugfix project and hit a brick wall with the difficulty in the "Upper Roib" levels.
Yes, it was you who asked the community if we were able to beat Keens 58 and 59 without cheating and I told you I beat them both on easy and normal, but failed on hard. It was Nisaba who asked me directly if I was able to beat both mods with or without in-level saving. I told him I had beaten both games on easy without in-level saving, but used it several times to beat them on normal. Underworld Ultimate is obviously a lot harder than I remember it because when I played the older version in order to give you insight on its issues before I downloaded your fixed version, I could barely get through it even with massive in-level saving, and that was on easy! I doubt will ever play hard again on either mod because I bet they're near to next impossible.
What is Directive X_M?
User avatar
DarkAle
Vortininja
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 17:40
Location: Magic City
Contact:

Re: The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Post by DarkAle »

K1n9_Duk3 wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 23:28 By the way, that someone who asked if anybody ever actually managed to beat this mod without cheating, that was me
I won Keen 58 at normal. It was very hard but it wasn't impossible. I saved at maxium 10 times for level. Here's my post on its thread:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2791&p=94956#p94956
Syllypryde wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:33 I doubt will ever play hard again on either mod because I bet they're near to next impossible.
I read you failed because you lacked ammo. An idea to beat them both on hard is to use ammo only for very powerful enemies that can kill you easily and not waste them.
Commander Keen in... Robot Attack!
Episode 13: The Ultra Omegamatic viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6802
Episode 14: Secret of the Sorcerer viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6837
User avatar
Syllypryde
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 18:33
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Post by Syllypryde »

DarkAle wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:24 I read you failed because you lacked ammo. An idea to beat them both on hard is to use ammo only for very powerful enemies that can kill you easily and not waste them.
I guess I'm not coordinated enough to dodge enough enemies and spare my ammo. Ammo is not even in issue in Underworld Ultimate. It was just too damn hard.
What is Directive X_M?
User avatar
DarkAle
Vortininja
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 17:40
Location: Magic City
Contact:

Re: The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Post by DarkAle »

Syllypryde wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 13:48 I guess I'm not coordinated enough to dodge enough enemies and spare my ammo.
I think I can do it instead. I must play the game at hard and try!
Commander Keen in... Robot Attack!
Episode 13: The Ultra Omegamatic viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6802
Episode 14: Secret of the Sorcerer viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6837
Dynamo
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 781
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 22:03
Location: Everywhere.

Re: The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Post by Dynamo »

I remember many crashes from Ruin of Roib, can't pinpoint exactly what they are but several levels crashed on me at various stages when playing that mod. I see you also updated the sequel Underworld Ultimate, which is another mod that had several bugs (like, IIRC, being unable to save - thank God for dosbox savestates)
User avatar
K1n9_Duk3
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:30
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Post by K1n9_Duk3 »

Syllypryde wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:33 Since you claim that it was you and not him who created Beta V.3
I never claimed that. Beta V.3 was still Bernie's work (released 2013-07-01, according to the KeenWiki), as was Beta V.2 (released 2013-06-09). The "unofficial bug fixed v3.1" is the one that has my patches applied.

Also, as you pointed out, Beta 1 of Roib was released 2013-05-25, so that was less than two months before Bernie's final update to this mod in Beta V.3. That's why your claim that Bernie came back several years later and updated Roib didn't make any sense to me.
Hail to the K1n9, baby!
http://k1n9duk3.shikadi.net
User avatar
Syllypryde
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 18:33
Location: Michigan
Contact:

Re: The Great Galaxy-Mod Bug Hunt 2020

Post by Syllypryde »

K1n9_Duk3 wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 21:41Roib[/i] was released 2013-05-25, so that was less than two months before Bernie's final update to this mod in Beta V.3. That's why your claim that Bernie came back several years later and updated Roib didn't make any sense to me.
That's because I was looking at the last day posted in the thread rather than the date of his actual posts. Apparently I am slowly developing dyslexia.
What is Directive X_M?
Post Reply