News *play country- and channel-appropriate news theme now*

[Scarlet]

Here's a pretty nice article that is a deep slap in the face to all chavez haters. http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/ ... hoofinance

[troublesomekeen]

chavez haters

That would be my grandmother. I gather from what she said, you need a slap in the face if you don't hate him. His "Defender of the Poor" title? What a mockery, she says! All I know is don't believe everything you read. Or hear, for that matter.

[Scarlet]

chavez haters

That would be my grandmother. I gather from what she said, you need a slap in the face if you don't hate him. His "Defender of the Poor" title? What a mockery, she says! All I know is don't believe everything you read. Or hear, for that matter.

But she can't deny the 50 facts. http://www.globalresearch.ca/50-truths- ... on/5326268

[Levellass]

Indeed! Internet facts! Like 'A duck's quack doesn't echo and nobody knows why.' Undeniable truth backed up by references to respectable sources that...

Oh wait, I was confusing them with actual, reliable information.

Some of these facts are opinion (What IS 'democratic legitimacy?' exactly, and given that Hitler was elected (Godwin's law! Yeah!) and many dictators have enjoyed wondrous majorities what does it even mean? Is it a good thing? A bad thing? Or just something?)

Other facts are trivial 'Some guy said something, and he was a famous guy too!' Well shoot jane Fonda said there was no torture of American POWs, her famousness MUST make her right!

And like many lists this is 'all pro, no con'; a focus solely on the good. This is common in politics and elsewhere. For example, mother Theresa turned out not to be that hot: http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-n ... her-Teresa


Whenever things like this happen, especially when they involve someone's grave becoming a memorial I can't help but thing of the pilgrimage to Mecca or zealots gathered around the bones of a saint, worshiping the idea.

And I've seen too many countries idealistically slip into terror. Possibly it is good he is dead because we will not get to see him go full Mugabae on us.

[StupidBunny]

I bet I could find lots of websites listing facts about how awesome and godly Chavez was. I bet I could also find just as many sites describing him as one of the most evil men in history. That site you posted has such an obvious agenda that it's hard to take seriously. It would be like if I posted an article about Chavez from the Heritage Foundation and said, "See? Hugo Chavez is a terrorist-supporting dictator!" That would also be ridiculous. The truth, inevitably, is somewhere between the two extremes, though given...past experience I find it hard to imagine you seeing the world working that way.

[Scarlet]

I bet I could find lots of websites listing facts about how awesome and godly Chavez was. I bet I could also find just as many sites describing him as one of the most evil men in history. That site you posted has such an obvious agenda that it's hard to take seriously. It would be like if I posted an article about Chavez from the Heritage Foundation and said, "See? Hugo Chavez is a terrorist-supporting dictator!" That would also be ridiculous. The truth, inevitably, is somewhere between the two extremes, though given...past experience I find it hard to imagine you seeing the world working that way.

What is not true that is on that site? Did you bother to look at what was written? It is undeniable that he did very many great things, so many things that even the opposition promised to keep those things in place were they to win.

[StupidBunny]

I didn't say that anything on that site wasn't true--and indeed, I think a lot of those things are, and that Chavez should be commended for accomplishing them--what Lass and I are saying is that there's a lot of things the site doesn't say. Very high perceptions of corruption, dire inefficiency of the state economy (outside of the oil sector of course) and growing crime are some things that come to mind. Once again, it's about the fact that the 50 facts that site lists are all overwhelmingly positive, as if there is no controversy to be had, nothing wrong whatsoever with Chavez's government. I think he has accomplished a lot of great things but I can't just ignore the problems that his government may have engendered as well.

Here's the data from the WEF comparing Venezuela with Singapore and Chad (I picked those two for their renown as efficient and inefficient economies.) Play with the indicators in the left column, it's pretty interesting. Venezuela ranks worse than Chad in most indicators of government and economic transparency, efficiency, crime, and corruption, but close to Singapore in education enrollment, life expectancy, infant mortality and a lot of other public well-being indicators (though its quality of education is about on par with Chad's.) I encourage you to look at other datasets as well.

(Y'all will have to copy the link since it's too convoluted to form a url properly)
http://www.google.com/publicdata/explor ... &ind=false

[Scarlet]

I didn't say that anything on that site wasn't true--and indeed, I think a lot of those things are, and that Chavez should be commended for accomplishing them--what Lass and I are saying is that there's a lot of things the site doesn't say. Very high perceptions of corruption, dire inefficiency of the state economy (outside of the oil sector of course) and growing crime are some things that come to mind. Once again, it's about the fact that the 50 facts that site lists are all overwhelmingly positive, as if there is no controversy to be had, nothing wrong whatsoever with Chavez's government. I think he has accomplished a lot of great things but I can't just ignore the problems that his government may have engendered as well.

Here's the data from the WEF comparing Venezuela with Singapore and Chad (I picked those two for their renown as efficient and inefficient economies.) Play with the indicators in the left column, it's pretty interesting. Venezuela ranks worse than Chad in most indicators of government and economic transparency, efficiency, crime, and corruption, but close to Singapore in education enrollment, life expectancy, infant mortality and a lot of other public well-being indicators (though its quality of education is about on par with Chad's.) I encourage you to look at other datasets as well.

(Y'all will have to copy the link since it's too convoluted to form a url properly)
http://www.google.com/publicdata/explor ... &ind=false

Venezuela has always been rock bottom on the corruption index. Check for yourself, http://archive.transparency.org/policy_ ... evious_cpi

Chavez can't fix EVERYTHING. Nevertheless he did so much both for Venezuela and others that it deserves much praise rather than condemnation.

I never said that Chavez was flawless. But on the whole he was a pretty damn good person for the world, especially for the maldeveloped/third world.

[Roobar]

The whole North Korea vs South Korea and USA conflict is getting disturbing now. It looks like the situation is getting worse by each day as North Korea says it is ready to launch nuclear strike against US and they are now purposing evacuation of the embassies. On the other hand, usa doesn't want to step back and along with South Korea are preparing for counter-attack. China and Russia also indicates that are mobilizing and preparing.

Do you think this will emerge into war? Are North Koreans out of their mind? Why North vs South cannot agree and are in conflict? Why they don't want to sit on a table and negotiate? Or are they just trying to scare US and South Korea? Why North Korea describe usa as the devil aggressor? I mean yeah, I know usa is the most aggressive nation, but aren't the Americans also out of their mind and not scared of a nuclear war?

I really want this to be solved by a diplomatic way. They must clear all their differences and step back where needed in order to sustain the peace.

[StupidBunny]

Why North Korea describe usa as the devil aggressor?

They've always described the USA as saber-rattling imperialist brigand running dogs and will continue to do so until their regime ends. It is the only source of legitimacy they claim to have with their people these days, that the Kim regime and its brilliantly oversized military is the only thing that stands between them and being raped, looted and bombed to oblivion by the evil Americans. South Korea, meanwhile, is portrayed in North Korean media as a puppet state of the US, which is forced to do America's bidding and which would welcome the North Koreans as liberators if only the Americans would leave. Fear and hatred of the US (and, to a much lesser extent, Japan) are the biggest propaganda points North Korea can build off of.

I do not think that North Korea is preparing for war with South Korea, the US or anybody else. This is more big talk on their part, and I think it's a good way for North Korea to bring other countries in to negotiations: invent a crisis, and then make it look like the North Koreans are the ones who are, in the last hour, being reasonable and putting nice offers on the table. It's a pattern they've repeated thousands of times before.

Only now, it isn't obvious what they're bargaining for, and what they've made available for negotiation. The regime has kind of backed itself into a corner with its rhetoric, what with the state proclaiming that "the era of neither peace nor war has ended" and that they will finally resolve the 60-year-old crisis on the peninsula in one final, triumphant catharsis for the Korean people, not to mention the non-negotiability of the nuclear program which is "the life of the nation." I see war as highly unlikely, and the most extreme outcome I'd expect would be some degree of destabilization in North Korea if Kim Jong Un turns out to have disappointed the military after all this.

[chrissifniotis]

I have to agree with that. Granted I picked this up from television, but I got a very similar understanding from the discussion; that North Korea seems really to be talking big and talking war, especially with their very open and defiant nuclear plans, but it would be insanity and perhaps after a few years the threat of war would be rescinded.

War! War! War! Merry Nuclear Wintermas!

[Levellass]

I suggest everyone watch an episode of Squirrel and Hedgehog to gain an understanding of Korean politics as seen by the few, rare, lucky children who have electricity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWOjA-eYnIU


I also suggest reading this children's book, not about this war, but a similar one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rq2tkepYHM

[Scarlet]

In Belarus beaver hunt you.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-bu ... 08486.html



And, Sweden burns...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22656657




And, Toronto's mayor smokes crack! Poor city.

[lemm]

In Belarus beaver hunt you.
And, Toronto's mayor smokes crack! Poor city.

I thought that was shown to be false.

[Levellass]

Very true. Totonto's mayor probably doesn't smoke crack. He's just rude, ignorant, crude and incredibly good at budgets: http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/how- ... in-office/