But first,
Thank you for not addressing the point I made about not every consumer being an idiot (if you did address that point please point it out to me). The reason that I mentioned the genres thing is because saying that every mario game sucks is impossible, because there's so many that the laws of probability state at least one of them has to be good, when you take into account the endless praise for the cardinal games, the massive popularity, and the fact that a variety of developers have tackled a variety of concepts with the same character means a variety of outcomes, not just all "they all suck". Mario Kart is a completely different game to other Mario games. It's also one of the best multiplayer game series there is if you forget that Double Dash happened. This isn't "people are being tricked into thinking that it's good" sort of thing like those audio cable scams. You can't really do that.Mario is also, how long running? And it spans how many genres?This is a bad point, in my opinion. Things should live and things should die. The only reason it is going on so long is because there are many hardcore fans who simply don't know of anything better.
The point is, there are many mario games of varying quality and varying genre. When I pointed out genre, I wasn't making another point about the length of mario game series. I was making a point about it's quality. You might think the platform mechanics of mario are too inferior for your sophisticated pc gamer world, but the clever badge mechanics of the Mario RPGs and the way they mix random encounters and turn-based mechanics with real-time play are examples of how the platform games aren't the only ones that matter, but the side games like the RPGs are pretty cool too if you play them. Paper Mario is a nice, simple, enjoyable RPG with some complexities and strategy required and it enchants a younger audience while still being enjoyable to an older one.
What does this mean? It means that Mario isn't comparable to the keen series. Every keen game is a platformer, without exception. Not every mario game is though. There's racers and baseball and soccer and RPGs and all sorts of delicious I already forgot how I begun this sentence. They aren't all side scrollers. The comparison becomes invalid. Unless we're only talking Mario platformers here, in which case, you're cutting out a large chunk of the mario games, and some of the best at that too. Mario games are superior in gameplay mechanics, level design, music (definitely) and nowadays, graphics too. That's not just because of technical advancement. Check out Mario and Luigi superstar saga.
As for "things should live and things should die", I only meet people on the internet who say that about things they don't like. I suppose your argument is they've run out of ideas. Congratulations on never having played New Super Mario Bros. Any of them. Or Super Mario Galaxy. Or not even having the vaguest knowledge of what happens in Super Mario Galaxy. The levels use their mechanics in clever ways and add new ones that haven't been in Mario games beforehand.
On a series basis, Mario > Keen. This is beyond debate.
If you want to start going by individual games, by all means do. Certainly, Goodbye Galaxy > The original Super mario brothers. But none of the NES mario brothers afterwards. But then we're really starting to get out of the argument into a pointless territory that'll get kind of boring.
I'm not feeling particularly eloquent this afternoon, so I don't seem to be able to find the right word for what I'm getting at with Mario's variety of genres. I feel I have made my point mostly. Onwards.
Aaah, here we go.Joysticks = fail. They are an attempt to make the computer more like a console.
Lets say that a computer is high brow, and a nintendo system is low brow.
Now I totally understand your reasoning.
And it's stupid.
I should not be able to type "PC vs console debate" and get people having a debate about this because it's stupid.
It becomes evident that we require webcomics, and if I seriously have to explain the joke in this one, I swear someone's getting <s>murdered</s> a birthday present.
Despite Scarlet's lack of reason for how Nintendo is inherently lowbrow (because Zelda totally lacks depth and is a shallow experience amirite) I think I've seen what his point is. It's that the there's a lack of strategy, and leniency towards action. His unstated argument must be that because analog sticks and joysticks are imprecise they must be for those who rely on twitch reflexes and prefer only action gun games and those sorts of things. They must be INHERENTLY BAD. Like how the iPad is for the dumb-downed rednecks of america, so too must the venerated console controller be for the lowest caste in the gaming hierarchy.
This is why he thinks Keen is better than Mario. Because Keen uses a D-Pad, with four precise directions that you know will go the way you want. Because there's no run button, therefore it's not an ACTION-Y kind of game. You can't be running and fall into a chasm because of your own shortsightedness like in Mario. I refuse to believe that your friends got you to do the more challenging parts of the games, especially considering how you felt using keen sprites, tiles and sound effects in an affectionate tribute to the keen games was an offense to keen. Quite frankly, I find it hard to believe you'd touch the things after that. You clearly harbor some sort of resentment towards Mario.
Besides, look at all the BUTTONS on keyboards. You can TEXT ADVENTURE them. You can do TEXT things, like how you can't use text in scribblenauts, a highly inventive game that rewards creativity.
For anyone who hasn't gotten my point yet, Scarlet seems to be saying something along the lines of "Chess is better than football because there's precision and tactics whereas football is for dumbed-down people who like kicking things and dragging something beyond it's time because they're dumb." Chess = highbrow while football = lowbrow sort of argument. Nintendo is for the football audience whereas Chess is for the PC gamer audience
garg.
I shouldn't even have to explain this. I don't even think I can be bothered. The mere fact that you think consoles are an addiction and you're just hammering away at buttons shows you don't fully understand the relationship between the controller and the game. There is no counter-argument for this because there's no other way you couldn't understand this. This is the view that parents who've never played a vindiotron in their life have. This is why those parents think that games are stupid.
I addressed your point about this "just hammering away at buttons" looking at a screen in my earlier post. Everything boils down to that kind of thing. PC games are just hammering at a keyboard while looking at a screen. That's what it all boils down to. It's oversimplification to say that about PC games, but it's also oversimplification to say that about console games.
Not to mention the vast variety of console games that are precise strategy games like ADVANCE WARS for starters. FIRE EMBLEM sorry I must have some sort of tourette's where I list examples of HALO WARS that thing I just said.
Your arguments don't hold up with your counter arguments. They just don't gel. You have a prejudice against console games that you seem to have held from your youth for a reason that you'll either lie about (you thought they were garg and unfair because you can't be precise maybe? dragging on a conflict from your youth between you and the dreaded nintendo kids?) or you've lied about earlier things making your argument about PC games being better tie itself up. You're points aren't holding up with the way you've said things earlier.
Let's conclude. With a quote from you that I will take as something to judge the rest of your comments by.
This is the classic "I have no rational reason but may not even be admitting it to myself" response. If you can just dismiss CKeen's post as his opinion, can we not all do that? After all, it's just "your opinion" that console games are lowbrow. It's just "your opinion" that Keen is even a good game. Earlier in the MKF thread where you said that's a slap in the face to keen? WOOPS, IT'S JUST YOUR OPINION SCARLET. You've entirely invalidated your own argument. After all, if you can dismiss CKeen's argument with "YOUR OPINION", why can't I dismiss yours? Yes, that woud mean you could dismiss mine, but that would just be "YOUR OPINION". We'd all be wrong, but most of all, you'd be wrong.Ckeen, that is just your opinion.
You have no frame of reference on console addiction because you don't own a console. You sound like you're a parent who's out of touch with their child's interest. In fact, you sound like someone saying that all movies suck in the cinema despite cinema being a dedicated movie venue, when made for tv movies are inherently better and besides TV shows movies anyway. Because all you do in a cinema is sit there and look at a screen in a dark room, whereas on TV you can change channels, and SOMETIMES, YOU CAN USE A DISC MENU.
In conclusion oh boy lunch time.