And now, Libya...

Djaser · Post by **Djaser** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:18

Levellass wrote:
Isn't there some kind of law about bringing up Godwin's law? The point is, his rationale for sympathy is not fine enough.
Godwin's law states that the firs tperson to mention Hitler and/or nazis in a thread automatically loses the argument. Scarlet has thus lost and we are not obliged to listen to any more of his logic.

To be fair, Keen-Empire edited the name "Hitler" in a Scarlet quote so he would have lost.

DHeadshot · Post by **DHeadshot** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:26

Djaser wrote:
Levellass wrote:
Isn't there some kind of law about bringing up Godwin's law? The point is, his rationale for sympathy is not fine enough.
Godwin's law states that the firs tperson to mention Hitler and/or nazis in a thread automatically loses the argument. Scarlet has thus lost and we are not obliged to listen to any more of his logic.
To be fair, Keen-Empire edited the name "Hitler" in a Scarlet quote so he would have lost.

Well, we've all lost The Game now, so...

Post by **Levellass** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:48

I didn't, I saw the XKCD strip. For me, the game is over.

And it seems that Term is correct. I have been resident on the Axis Powers forums too long.

Scarlet · Post by **Scarlet** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:37

And so we have a civil war.

kuliwil · Post by **kuliwil** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:23

Scarlet wrote:And so we have a civil war.

Depends on which news network you listen to.

Or were you referring to the forum's usage of Godwin's law?

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Dynamo · Post by **Dynamo** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 13:35

Gotta love how some people are able to turn everything into a dumb as fucl argument.

But yeah I have no idea what's going on with the capital, that is, if it is being besieged or not.

DHeadshot · Post by **DHeadshot** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 13:42

Basically, Gaddaffi is crazy. We knew this long ago. The thing about crazy leaders is you have no idea what they're going to do next. One trend we have been able to deduce about crazy leaders though is they don't give up power very easily (especially not when they're Italian, but I digress). Basically, Gaddiffi isn't going to leave until the protestors literally pick him up and throw him out. Until then, this bloodfest of a conflict is going to continue unabated.

Oh and if a Western power gets involved, everything will get worse!

Post by **Levellass** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:20

What impresses me most about the whole situation is the feeling of pride and togetherness in the area now. For too long arabs have been under governments that sapped their power and freedom, but now, there's a feeling of brotherhood and achievement, people who have never seen each other, in different countries under different governments consider themselves to be fighting for a single cause.

I've been poking around some of the blogs and I think there's a real sense of achievement, of getting something back. They may not have solved any problems and may not slip into democracy, but there's a sense now that they're in control somehow, that they're writing their own destiny again.

It's very inspiring.

DHeadshot · Post by **DHeadshot** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:51

Seems as I was writing the sentence "if a Western power gets involved, everything will get worse!", my own idiotic government were sending in the SAS (I've only just read the paper and internet news sites preferred to ignore Libya and focus on the 23 year old Romanian grandmother story, so I've only just heard)...

Prepare for all hell to break loose as terrorist capitalise on the unrest to turn all parties anti-western in response...

StupidBunny · Post by **StupidBunny** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 18:08

Of course, it's a somewhat understandable question: do we watch idly as the rebels handle their own war, even if they are slaughtered and overtaken by their aging tyrant, or do we dedicate our time and efforts to their side, even if that means branding them as "Western-backed"? There are have been times in history where the Western powers have done the first when they really should have done the second (international handling of the Rwanda genocide and subsequent Congo wars, for instance, was incredibly ineffectual, probably because of post-Somalia paranoia about interventionism.) But of course there have been many times when the same powers did intervene where they shouldn't have, even without including aggressive wars of conquest and things like that.

It's not entirely possible now to say what will turn out to be the right solution in the end, but I'm still leaning against a no-fly zone and am absolutely against deploying ground forces. I think this is just one case where foreign military aid will reflect badly on the rebels in the minds of their compatriots across the Middle East.

thehackercat · Post by **thehackercat** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 21:23

I agree with Washington's (EDIT: GEORGE Washington) tit-for-tat system of foreign relations. Only provide help when help is asked for, and only attack when aggression is shown or threats are made. Other than that, stay out of it.

However, a special-forces backed operation, provided they were in and out in about a week, might produce some positive results. Sending in the SEALS or the Special Air Service might actually do some good militarily and/or politically. The dictators need to be toppled, or you can bet your sweet goplats that there'll be "anti-Western sentiment." Don't you think there's already anti-West sentiment? Whose idea was democracy? Now that Western ideology has "corrupted" their populace, thugs and dictators everywhere are already against us. Let's do something about it for once.

DHeadshot · Post by **DHeadshot** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:38

thehackercat wrote:Sending in the SEALS or the Special Air Service might actually do some good militarily and/or politically.

Didn't you read my post? The SAS were sent in and have just made it worse!
I doubt the SEALS would be any better since if anything they're less subtle...

thehackercat · Post by **thehackercat** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:20

How have they made anything worse?

StupidBunny · Post by **StupidBunny** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:38

Yeah...they fucled their own garg up, but that's different from making the situation in Libya worse.

Post by **Levellass** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:58

Never send seals. Always go with walruses.

Only provide help when help is asked for, and only attack when aggression is shown or threats are made. Other than that, stay out of it.

The problem is what counts as asking, in any conflict there'll be *someone* saying 'America, please come in and blow up that guy!'; I believe even Gadaffi was asking for western aid at one point. In the end there may be no way to win.