peak oil

shikadi · Post by **shikadi** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 18:27

google it...

see how some doomsayes say "we need 1 billion people by X" or "we need to lose 6% of world population a year to live... starting now" or "maybe we need at most 10 million people to be sustainable".

realistic or pessimistic?

Roobar · Post by **Roobar** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 20:28

I'm not sure what exactly you are trying to say. Some say 3 billion people population on Earth is the maximum where we can live in harmony with it. However, with 6+ billion population and growing, the things cannot continue in that way forever.

The reinvention of the electric cars is way beyond schedule due to the bureaucratic petroleum monopolists. The economic is in collapse and is proven that this model isn't working and never will. Eventually, our economy will come to a point where the green $ will mean nothing.

It's interesting to see what the Illuminati are up to. They're trying to reduce the world population by many ways. For example the chemtrails, vaccines, GMO foods, HAARP rings etc.

Whenever the illuminati are involved or not, we are surely on our way of extinction anyway: swarm of earthquakes, volcano eruptions, radiation pollution, electromagnetic smoke, water, soil, food and air pollution, tropical forest disappearing, corals dying, deserts expanding, bees and fishes drastically dying all over the world, every-day species and ecosystems extinctions, ozone layer expanding, never before seen tornadoes and storms, snow falling in untypical places and seasons, poles changing, "frisbees" at sea forming, ocean circulation changing, untypical sun activity behavior, killer bacterias, Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus etc. This year we surely have everything you can think about it!

So you see, at the temps the things are going on right now, there's no need for someone to even try to reduce the population. Looks like the things are worsen year by year, so eventually the population of Earth will stop growing at some point because of it. Even the kids can see that all of this is happening right now and that this model isn't working.

Post by **tulip** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 22:01

people that know me personally, know what I'm gonna say:

Man is the biggest pest on earth, there are clearly too many. I don't believe that science fiction stuff Deltamatic has been talking about some time ago, that technology will provide for a muliple of todays pop without problems, vertical farming, gaining land from the sea and all that stuff.
It may be possible to create a subsistence for a far greater amount of people than we have today, but don't think that such a situation is desireable.

Deltamatic · Post by **Deltamatic** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 23:03

And even if we were colonizing space in all directions we still couldn't reproduce at the rate we are now, because while spheres expand polynomially, unchecked population growth is exponential.

Scarlet · Post by **Scarlet** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 0:23

Are we talking about oil or population or what???

Whatever the topic is, there has to be planning, hence government involvement/regulation of whatever. On the other hand, those people are are libertarians will say this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saWCZVggQAs

RoboBlue · Post by **RoboBlue** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 14:23

Yeah... the thread name has no relation to the actual topic.
What's wrong with Genetically modified foods and vaccines anyway? It seems to me that more food and less disease would increase the population, not decrease it.

TerminILL · Post by **TerminILL** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 23:32

Vaccines are dubious in a lot of ways, and if you're feeling particularly conspiratorial you can link them to the "increase" of autism, alleriges, and the like in recent years. A lot of concern about GM foods ties back to sci-fi and horror stigma, people thinking that eating changed food will change us, etc, but on a more real level, insect-resistant and herbicide-tolerant crops could have a significant impact on the ecosystem.

Post by **Flaose** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:41

Wow wiivn, you're really into that conspiratorial/pseudo-science stuff eh?

In answer to the original question, Homo sapiens sapiens hasn't gotten this far by sheer dumb luck. We've learned to adapt to our environment quite well, and are able to respond quickly to changes if forced to. As well, the world is a large place and could support a much higher population than it currently has (even if it would need some persuasion on our part). So even if we've hit peak oil, are "overpopulated", or whatever, humans will be fine, the other animals, possibly not so much. While we should take care of our surroundings to a point, it should never be so extreme as to negatively affect ourselves.

I realize this is a very anthopocentric point of view, and will be unpopular with many, but c'est la vie.

Roobar · Post by **Roobar** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:05

@Flaose: well I can say you're ignorant then. You just don't give a garg about what's really going on, that is. If the obvious facts about the economy and environment are "conspiratorial/pseudo-science stuff" for you, then you surely are. But that's ok actually. Most of the people are.

Yes, there are some levels of adaption, but not unlimited. As usual, our nature, although evolved so much in centuries, isn't changed that much. Typically, we will still take notes after something happens, not before we can prevent it from happening, even if we know about it.

DHeadshot · Post by **DHeadshot** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 15:50

Wait, so this isn't about the fact that Oil Production will peak in 2020 and then steadily decline over the next 50 years until the entire planet runs out? That isn't a conspiracy theory btw - it's what some of the world's leading scientists told a press conference a year ago...

thehackercat · Post by **thehackercat** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 16:51

wiivn wrote:@Flaose: well I can say you're ignorant then. You just don't give a garg about what's really going on, that is. If the obvious facts about the economy and environment are "conspiratorial/pseudo-science stuff" for you, then you surely are. But that's ok actually. Most of the people are.

I believe that he was referring to your view that the Illuminati were somehow trying to control the population with vaccines, GMO foods, chemtrails, and the HAARP project (which are, respectively, modern medicine, modern genetics/agriculture, complete bunk, and an ionospheric research platform).

Your concerns are valid, but you must excuse we "ignorant" folk if we appear reluctant to don a tinfoil hat anytime soon.

Scarlet · Post by **Scarlet** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 22:01

DHeadshot wrote:Wait, so this isn't about the fact that Oil Production will peak in 2020 and then steadily decline over the next 50 years until the entire planet runs out? That isn't a conspiracy theory btw - it's what some of the world's leading scientists told a press conference a year ago...

I'd discuss that. And I'd discuss this other thing. I'm waiting for the discussion to match the thread's title. :S One of the two have to change.

Roobar · Post by **Roobar** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:09

thehackercat wrote:I believe that he was referring to your view that the Illuminati were somehow trying to control the population with vaccines, GMO foods, chemtrails, and the HAARP project (which are, respectively, modern medicine, modern genetics/agriculture, complete bunk, and an ionospheric research platform).

Oh fucl the illuminati. Just try some research before you say something stupid.
1. Modern medicine - haha. The vaccines aren't a "modern medicine". From basic search: "Prior to vaccination, inoculation was practised, and brought to the West in 1721 by Lady Mary Wortley Montagu"

Now about the vaccines. There are some researches by The Cochrane Collaboration which involved 260 000 children (6 to 22 months old) and the results are showing that there are no evidence that anti-flu vaccines were more efficient than placebo. With the 60 000 adults research, the results were the same. The vaccination reduces the risk of getting sick with no more than 6%. The conclusion is that no matter how many people are "immunized" with vaccines, the frequency of sick isn't reduced.

Now about the vaccines themselves. There are different types. Some of them contain killed, but previously virulent, micro-organisms that have been destroyed with chemicals, heat, radioactivity or antibiotics. Some of them are toxic. Do you really want to inject these in yourself? Do you call this a modern medicine? What most people don't understand is that using these vaccines every year for many years actually makes them with more weaker immune system rather than protecting them.

If you're allergic to something, doctors may prescribe you therapy with vaccine injections. The procedure lasts up to 5 (!) years. Their observations are that you've got ~50% chance that after 5 years of injections most of the symptoms (not all) will disappear. They say they even got some patients totally "healed". But most importantly, only some. And that's the modern medicine! However, they don't tell you that after that long process is over, the symptoms might just come back and you'll have to start all over. Or that this immunization is actually causing immune suppression, not immune stimulation. People doing this are actually open doors to chronic diseases. In order to fight asthma or allergic symptoms, you should make exactly the opposite - immune stimulation and immune modulation. And that's the way with many other diseases.

Overall, there are other known side effects depending on vaccines. You can read on teh internet.

Most of the vaccines are effective only against one virus strain. Usually, the one that is the most popular during the winter period and there are hundreds out there. Are you calling this immunization? I think not. The companies put a lot of money to convince us that they work. The only thing that works are their commercials and influence on people.

The better way for you to avoid being sick is by just improve your immune system by yourself. This means get rid of toxins, do sport activity, eat fresh food etc. Basically, if your immune system is in good shape, there are no viruses that can make you sick.

2. modern genetics - now that's modern. Let's see. For the latest 10 years, the profits of the global transgene farming are reaching $40 billion and counting.

Now, the harm has been proven on animals. The GMO testing on animals shows disturbances of the functions of their lungs, kidney, pancreas. But this information is not spread-ed because there are lots of money involved.

Many transgene sorts corn, tobacco and tomatoes, which are resistant to the harmful insects, produce substance that prevent damage to the plants. It can decompose to toxic and mutagen phenols and methanol. Because of this, the higher doses of it can be harmful for the human.

There's an example of how bad GMO are. The Japanese company Showa Denko KK were supplying GMO tryptophan as a food supplement, which they claimed was unmodified equivalent of soya. But the GMO acid later were responsible for the death of 37 people and more than 1500 became disabled persons because of it.

Now, the GMO products may become mutagens and cancerous for the expense of their ability to accumulate herbicides, pesticides and products of their decomposition. For example the herbicide glyphostate which is used for the cultivation of transgene sugar beet and cotton can cause lymphonma. Another example: researches shows that some herbicides could affect negatively on the health of the human embryo. And so on, and so on. There can be found a lot of examples of how bad GMO food is.

What's more is that many genetic modified plants loose their re-productivity. An example is the wheat. Once giving a lot of production, it produces sterile grains which aren't able to produce new plants.

And there are no conspiracies in this! These are just facts!

3.chemtrails - complete bunk. Now there aren't many evidences or enough researches yet. The airplanes by themselves produce enormous CO2 pollution. The trails themselves fall on the ground anyways. However, there are some researches going on, of which an interesting discovery is that there are live organisms in these chemtrails that are looking like fibres. They may contain GMO bacteria, but this is yet to be proven.

4. Do you know what exactly they are doing in these "ionospheric research programs"? Let me quote it for you from http://www.haarp.alaska.edu: "The goal of this program is to further advance our knowledge of the physical and electrical properties of the Earth's ionosphere which can affect our military and civilian communication and navigation systems."

Now, now, affecting military systems eh?

http://www.ursi.org/Proceedings/ProcGA0 ... /p0936.pdf

"A most fascinating and important property of the active ionosphere is its potential to act as a frequency transformer that
converts HF power injected from a high power HF transmitter into the ionosphere, into coherent lower frequency
VLF/ELF/ULF waves. The conversion principle relies on modulating the electrojet currents in the ionospheric D and E
regions by using amplitude modulated HF heating. The low frequency fields subsequently couple to the earth-ionosphere
waveguide, while a fraction of their power upwards towards the magnetosphere."

Here's how HAARP works with pictures:
http://foia.abovetopsecret.com/ultimate ... ations.pdf
By reading this document, you can see why when using HAARP, rings appeared.

Now, there are many haarp rings tracked by users in usa (rings can be spotted on intellicast.com), but what's more interesting is that some users found some patterns with weather abnormalities. To put it simply, whenever a big haarp ring occur, they could predict where a severe weather may occur. And obviously, they become more and more accurate.

As you can see, there are many concerns about these things. You cannot say "blah, that's modern medicine, you're paranoically obsessed" and thus ignoring things you believe are ok. We better address these issues.

So damn it, do a basic research next time before you laugh at me.

thehackercat wrote:Your concerns are valid, but you must excuse we "ignorant" folk if we appear reluctant to don a tinfoil hat anytime soon.

Do whatever you want. I don't care. It's so simple that there are just four optional exits from our decisions as far as ecology is concern:
1. We don't act, ignoring the problems, polluting the world, and the world goes to hell because of our ignorance;
2. We don't act, ignoring the problems, polluting etc, but eventually this becoming the right way "as planned" and things continue to be as always (not likely);
3. We act strong, reducing waste, pollution etc., but it's too late: the world go to hell anyways;
4. We act and we do actually change everything for good, saving our home planet and make a good future for generations to come (also not likely, but because of us now, as it looks like we don't like the changes overall).

It's up to us. I'm just saying.

DHeadshot · Post by **DHeadshot** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:13

This is what I thought of when reading the above post...

Roobar · Post by **Roobar** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:43

Wow! You can read?