Buying the rights to Commander Keen.

dissolvegirl · Post by **dissolvegirl** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:04

Many people, including Tom, including other companies on Tom's behalf, have approached Zenimax about purchasing the rights to Commander Keen– and they just flat-out refuse to do so (while not planning to revive the series any time soon). Tom has also said that he doesn't want to license the rights from Zenimax, just to create a game and see it get incredibly popular, only to have Keen taken from him again.

I'm writing a book about Keen, its place in history, its current fanbase, and what (if anything) might happen with Keen in the future– and I'm hoping if nothing else, the exposure about what really happened with the franchise and how many people really love it and want Tom back in the captain's chair might help give Zenimax a change of heart.

It's awesome that you thought of doing something! Keen changed my life as a kid and is probably why I'm a game designer now. I work with Tom, and it's a dream come true. I can guarantee though– Keen means as much to him as it does to you. I mean, he didn't grow up with it, but Keen IS him as a kid.

StupidBunny · Post by **StupidBunny** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:08

dissolvegirl wrote:I'm writing a book about Keen, its place in history, its current fanbase, and what (if anything) might happen with Keen in the future– and I'm hoping if nothing else, the exposure about what really happened with the franchise and how many people really love it and want Tom back in the captain's chair might help give Zenimax a change of heart.

It's awesome that you thought of doing something! Keen changed my life as a kid and is probably why I'm a game designer now. I work with Tom, and it's a dream come true. I can guarantee though– Keen means as much to him as it does to you. I mean, he didn't grow up with it, but Keen IS him as a kid.

I have a new hero, and it is you.

Seriously.

dissolvegirl · Post by **dissolvegirl** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:13

Thanks! Not in the least because I am going to be relying on this forum in the next couple months to help me learn more about this awesome, vibrant community for the book.

I mean, heck, six months ago Tom didn't even know Commander Genius EXISTED. (I didn't either!) Romero told him about it during the dinner that was my job interview.

Post by **Ceilick** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:15

Thanks for the info, dissolvegirl, and welcome. Is your book a recent project and any ETA for it?

Edit: lol, ninjas.

GARGapplesauce · Post by **GARGapplesauce** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:27

I've only been here a little over a year, so I really haven't heard if it's happened- has anybody here had contact with John Carmack at all? I seem to recall reading somewhere that he's the only member of the original team who hasn't been over here to the PCKF. I understand that he alone doesn't have the power to relinquish Keen, but I feel that he'd still be a worthwhile person to get into contact with as far as this matter goes, even if it would be to find out WHY they won't relinquish the rights. I feel like he'd be reasonable enough to answer some questions with the right amount of schmoozing and such... or perhaps he'd just chuck the email right into his trash folder. It's worth a shot, I mean who else at Zenimax would even give the slightest f*ck about Keen? Just curious if anyone else would have interest in trying to get ahold of him.

And as the head of Id's tech stuff (I assume he still holds the position?) he has to have SOME sway in the rights to their former game.

As for who should have the rights, sure, I'd be happy for Tom to have them, but I've got to agree with Ceilick and the like- if someone here were able to develop, it could certainly be better. You all have thought extensively about things that could be done with Keen, and have even gone so far as to create things like netkeen. To be perfectly honest, I like the rest of you have seen the tweets and facebook messages with Tom, and while he certainly seems interested in creating new keens... he just doesn't seem all that interested. I feel like he's got to have other projects and such and just really can't think about keen all that much. I mean I could be wrong about that, but really I think things would get done if someone like Lemm were to work on the projects.

Ideally, Tom would get the rights and people here could help him develop stuff.

Regardless of what happens, I'm just glad to see that a professional approach is finally being taken to this great conundrum of keendom, as opposed to the usual joking "storm Id software and demand the rights" approach. Maybe this could get done. It would be cool. It could also be the end of the PCKF if some genius decides to take legal action.

StupidBunny · Post by **StupidBunny** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:32

GARGapplesauce wrote:...while he [Tom] certainly seems interested in creating new keens... he just doesn't seem all that interested.

dissolvegirl wrote:I work with Tom, and it's a dream come true. I can guarantee though– Keen means as much to him as it does to you. I mean, he didn't grow up with it, but Keen IS him as a kid.

GARGapplesauce · Post by **GARGapplesauce** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:37

GARGapplesauce wrote: I mean I could be wrong about that, but really I think things would get done if someone like Lemm were to work on the projects.

Just my opinion, bro.

EDIT: And I said CREATING KEENS, of course it means something to him, but that doesn't mean he wants to devote all his energy to creating more games in the series.

StupidBunny · Post by **StupidBunny** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:40

And I mean it may well be true, from a practical standpoint especially (which I think is part of what your argument was.)

I also think it would be great if Tom did get the community involved in some way. I don't think there's one of us who wouldn't love the opportunity to help see through the next chapter of the Keen series, and there's enough different talents in the community for that to be possible I think.

Post by **Ceilick** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:04

I'd like to clarify my previous statement, that I'd rather the rights go to someone in the community, in the context of some kind of organized action from the community. I wouldn't support campaigning or donations just to get Tom Hall the rights, even if it were feasible, simply because no one really knows what he'd do with them or what his relationship with the community would be. We have statements from him about making new Keens, but that's pretty vague and for many of us it's been almost two decades since we've had any kind of consumer-developer relationship with him. At the moment "Tom Hall with Keen Rights" is more or less a hazy, ill-defined ideal.

I do certainly wish him the best in obtaining the IP himself.

Also it should be noted that this idea of retaking the Keen rights isn't new; the community has seen it many times, in different forms, over the years.

Lava89 · Post by **Lava89** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:10

dissolvegirl wrote:Many people, including Tom, including other companies on Tom's behalf, have approached Zenimax about purchasing the rights to Commander Keen– and they just flat-out refuse to do so (while not planning to revive the series any time soon).

Do you have proof of this? If so, then we know that the money issue is off the table as to why Keen's rights are still confined. Proof would definitely be handy and appreciated in getting to the bottom of this.

And welcome to the boards! I am looking forward to seeing your book's completion

-MegaTrip: · Post by **-MegaTrip:** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:16

RoboBlue · Post by **RoboBlue** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:51

dissolvegirl wrote:I'm writing a book about Keen, its place in history, its current fanbase, and what (if anything) might happen with Keen in the future– and I'm hoping if nothing else, the exposure about what really happened with the franchise and how many people really love it and want Tom back in the captain's chair might help give Zenimax a change of heart.

Sorry to be a downer, but if you write a book and give Keen a lot of new exposure, won't Zenimax be more likely to hold on to the rights in hopes of making a profit?

Ceilick wrote:I'd like to clarify my previous statement, that I'd rather the rights go to someone in the community, in the context of some kind of organized action from the community. I wouldn't support campaigning or donations just to get Tom Hall the rights, even if it were feasible, simply because no one really knows what he'd do with them or what his relationship with the community would be. We have statements from him about making new Keens, but that's pretty vague and for many of us it's been almost two decades since we've had any kind of consumer-developer relationship with him. At the moment "Tom Hall with Keen Rights" is more or less a hazy, ill-defined ideal.

I do certainly wish him the best in obtaining the IP himself.

Why don't we do both? If we buy the rights and release them into the public domain, there's nothing stopping Tom or anyone else from making a Keen game and profiting from it.

Bubbatom · Post by **Bubbatom** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:22

Ceilick wrote: Also it should be noted that this idea of retaking the Keen rights isn't new; the community has seen it many times, in different forms, over the years.

And what forms were these?

Lava89 · Post by **Lava89** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 19:24

GARGapplesauce wrote:has anybody here had contact with John Carmack at all? I seem to recall reading somewhere that he's the only member of the original team who hasn't been over here to the PCKF. I understand that he alone doesn't have the power to relinquish Keen, but I feel that he'd still be a worthwhile person to get into contact with as far as this matter goes, even if it would be to find out WHY they won't relinquish the rights.

I think he's definitely a good person to get in contact with.

It would also be interesting to see Tom Hall's or even Romero's explanation why the rights are locked up.

Commander Spleen · Post by **Commander Spleen** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:03

I would definitely be willing to put a bit of money, and a lot of time, toward this pursuit, as long as:

- development tailors to the real fan community instead of what is safely profitable to a mass consumer market. Direct involvement of the community (level design, for example) would be a bonus, and actual control over the ensuing projects by the community, with the option of involving the original developers as individuals, would be the ideal scenario

- the games produced through it are modding friendly

It would also be nice if having the rights on home turf would allow distribution of mods in a much more convenient manner. i.e. freedom to legally include all necessary game files. Generally, having access to the rights should benefit the modding community by giving it more recognition, and making it more accessible, rather than being obscured by fanfare from an official new game.

Public Commander Keen Forum

Buying the rights to Commander Keen.

Would I actually be willing to donate my time and money into purchasing the rights to Commander Keen?