Licensing Keen on steam

Post by **Levellass** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:04

So, browsing the Steam Subscriber Agreement today and I noticed this little gem:

Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of Software onto your computer. Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use in accordance with this Agreement, including the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software. To make use of the Software, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.

Asking around I have been informed (In light of the recent rights debate here.) that I do not in fact own anything, even Keen, downloaded from Steam. I am merely being allowed the privilege of running it on my computer. At any time they wish Steam may pop over and go 'Ok, hand it back, all the system backups too. Your license is revoked.'

And it happens, here's someone who was in the news a while back when Amazon decided to obliterate his account without warning, quite legally just 'cause: http://consumerist.com/2011/07/15/who-a ... n-account/

It's a sad day when you can't buy Keen anymore.

TerminILL · Post by **TerminILL** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:22

I dunno if you've ever read an EULA before, but the "licensed not sold" thing is probably in just about any piece of software you've purchased featuring an EULA, ever. It's snuck its way into online music purchases too, if I recall there was a bit of a ruckus put up by Bruce Willis of all people when Apple told him he couldn't legally bequeath his iTunes music collection in his will since he didn't own it, just a non-transferable license to it.

Basically, this is nothing new. This is the digital world we've been living in for many, many years, and I'm surprised someone as well-informed as you is only just learning of it, Lass.

Post by **Keening_Product** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:51

Steam include K1 and K4 in the bundle, right? That has to be given away, not licensed.

Is that a breach of Keen's shareware license?

TerminILL · Post by **TerminILL** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:10

Well, the point is entirely moot - even if your Steam "license" to K1 and 4 was revoked, you could still reobtain them through other valid means. The shareware policy isn't really being violated at all.

Rorie · Post by **Rorie** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:10

Keening_Product wrote:Steam include K1 and K4 in the bundle, right? That has to be given away, not licensed.

Is that a breach of Keen's shareware license?

i brought keen 1-5 from 3drealms direct so there is no drm from there as you would expect from steam

KeenEmpire · Post by **KeenEmpire** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:23

Keening_Product wrote:Steam include K1 and K4 in the bundle, right? That has to be given away, not licensed.

Is that a breach of Keen's shareware license?

The copyright holders can distribute it under whichever license they want. Presumably whomever authorized steam to distribute keens 2,3,5 authorized them to do this as well.

To answer the thread, this has been going on since forever, to avoid such awkward things as the first sale doctrine (you're not buying the item, you're buying a non-transferrable license to use the item!). The most famous example is probably microsoft windows, though things like online music have been getting recent attention.

NY00123 · Post by **NY00123** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 17:46

One technical difference is that Steam does not have to run in order to let the DOSBox emulator run. So, you can basically run any of the CK episodes distributed by Steam with any arbitrary version of DOSBox, a different emulator or even an actual DOS setup, the same way as you would do with the packaged releases.
As already mentioned before, there are also several similarities when it comes to the EULAs, although they are not identical, of course.

Post by **Levellass** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 0:35

Explain these 'EULAs' (Would it perhaps stand for End User License Agreement? I think I've heard that elsewhere, but I can only think of Redwall.)

But seriously now, when I buy a box of cereal i expect that I OWN said cereal. When I buy a book, I own said book and may gift, give away or burn it depending on content. Yet I don't actually own stuff I get online? What a gyp!

MoffD · Post by **MoffD** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:19

Levellass wrote:Explain these 'EULAs' (Would it perhaps stand for End User License Agreement? I think I've heard that elsewhere, but I can only think of Redwall.)

Yes... Definitely... Squirrels and mice, but particularly Badgers

chrissifniotis · Post by **chrissifniotis** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:46

I'll need to look up and read a few to get an idea, but I've been aware of the EULAs, there are digital copies in the directories of some games. I'll edit the post later with a basic outline.

*sits down cross-legged, pulls out a red book and starts reading*

guynietoren · Post by **guynietoren** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:35

Usually I get tired of Steam updates so I disconnect my internet before running Keen or Terraria. Goes into offline mode after it tries logging in. Which looks really dumb when it goes:
Running updates... oops, no internet.
Lets try logging in anyway... oh yeah, no internet.
A complete waste of time to sit through when it could just ask windows if there's an internet connection instead of waiting for time outs on both processes. BUT I can still play games without logging in, so long as it's already downloaded and will work offline. Of course Streams credibility will go down the drain if they screw up.