Electrolysis - in real life and in computer games

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SupFanat
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Electrolysis - in real life and in computer games

Post by SupFanat »

As you might know, some chemical substances can be decomposed by passing DC through it. The cheapest substance to try it out - water! (You'd need to add some alkali, acid or salt that isn't affected itself by the electrolysis but increases the electrical conductivity of water. Sodium chloride isn't suitable but sodium hydroxide, sulfuric acid or phosphoric acid should be fine).

The products of water electrolysis are hydrogen and oxygen. It could be used to utilize unused green electricity which would otherwise have to be thrown out. Hydrogen can be used as fuel or as reducing agent which turns carbon dioxide to methane and some metal oxides to metals.

Is there any example of computer games where electrolysis is used for some purpose?
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Post by Levellass »

There are problems with using hydrogen of course, for one thin it's a gas that needs compression to be stored, it tends to leak and is highly explosive. The production of hydrogen from water requires a LOT of energy, and for now most of that isn't exactly solar power but good old coal off the grid.

This is why there is so much interest in batteries. Lithium ones may be explosive if damaged but they're more stable than many liquid or gaseous fuels. The only problem would be generating the power sustainably, which, given the rise of solar (Some politicians even want to tax it now!) may be easier than expected.
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Post by SupFanat »

But the electricity from solar panels and wind turbines must be used even if you don't need it right now (otherwise it's wasted). So the electrolysis can make its sense.

Hydrogen can be used as reducing agent, for example to turn iron oxide (rust) into iron. You're right, compression is needed, it's pretty difficult to reach.

If you don't want to deal with gas you could try to use electrolysis to reduce copper sulfate to copper (you'd get the same oxygen gas on the anode but copper instead of hydrogen gas on the cathode).
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go away spambot.
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Post by SupFanat »

Another question - which computer games use electrolysis at all?
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Post by Keening_Product »

Electrolysis Simulator 2004 was the stand-out for me.

But anyway, if when you electrolysis you electrolysis the electrolysis but then electrolysis you can electrolysis to electrolysis that electrolysises the electrolysis and electrolysis electrolysis electrolysises.
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Post by Levellass »

Keening_Product wrote:But anyway, if when you electrolysis you electrolysis the electrolysis but then electrolysis you can electrolysis to electrolysis that electrolysises the electrolysis and electrolysis electrolysis electrolysises.
This is nothing but pure, unadulterated gibberish.

The process of electrolysis involves the electrolyzing of a lyzing medium, but NOT necessarily an electrolyte even though en electrolyte is required for an non-electrolytic medium to by electrolyzed. The electrolyte(s) may also lyze or co-lyze with the non-electrolytic medium. This is not to be confused with their lyzing of electrolytes when dissolving, which is simple dissociation.

Simples!

SupFanat wrote:But the electricity from solar panels and wind turbines must be used even if you don't need it right now (otherwise it's wasted). So the electrolysis can make its sense.
Hence my comments on batteries which allow you to store said energy. You can also dump it onto the grid, and sometimes get paid for it. Storing energy via compressed air or pumped water tends to be more efficient if less portable. Batteries aren't exactly petrol-tank-efficient yet, but look at what solar did when people weren't paying attention.
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Post by SupFanat »

Batteries tend to lose their capacity after many cycles of charging and discharging.
However electrolysis of water doesn't give worse quality of hydrogen with increasing amount of cycles "electrolysis - burning in fuel cell".
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Post by MoffD »

T-Squared wrote:foob.
The other problems with batteries is manufacturing and disposal, just throwing that out there.
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Post by Levellass »

MoffD wrote:
T-Squared wrote:foob.
The other problems with batteries is manufacturing and disposal, just throwing that out there.
SupFanat wrote:Batteries tend to lose their capacity after many cycles of charging and discharging.
However electrolysis of water doesn't give worse quality of hydrogen with increasing amount of cycles "electrolysis - burning in fuel cell".
Actually electrolysis does have its limits here too. Electrodes and the equipment used does degrade overtime. This is why in more... robust situations the usual carbon electrodes tend to be discarded in favor of longer lasting materials such as platinum. Electrodes can also be 'poisoned' by impurities in the water and let's not get into the wear-and-tear on gas canisters, pumps and notably pipes\hoses. Do you know how much natural gas leaks into the atmosphere each year from leaks? Remember, hydrogen is a greenhouse gas. http://www.ghgonline.org/otherhydrogen.htm

In the end nothing is eternal, if you use anything at all it's going to break eventually. Research continues apace to improve both energy density (Lithium air batteries) and lifetime. See http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/v9/ ... 4.152.html See also The Hype about Hydrogen by Joseph J. Romm.

With lithium batteries there is a strong push towards recycling due to the fact that lithium itself is not common. This will become increasingly so if such batteries become more common as it would allow the setup of large scale recycling industries. Look at what has happened with catalytic converters; they are a valuable resource now.

In the end the question is not whether batteries are perfect but whether they are good enough
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Post by SupFanat »

Yes, the electrodes are unfortunately a big trouble. The main problem is the anode. Almost every anode doesn't oxidize water to oxygen but gets dissolved itself instead. It's the main reason why I can't even try the electrolysis of water. Maybe platinum could help. And yes, distilled water doesn't conduct electrical current very well so some suitable acid, base or salt is needed as well.

Lithium-air battery is a good idea. But not only small batteries are needed. A huge lithium-air battery (tons) could help to store big amount of electricity.

But the another question seems to be ignored: what computer games use electrolysis as part of gameplay? For example as source of hydrogen or oxygen. I know Chemicus but it doesn't work on Windows 7 (and none from my up-to-date computers uses Windows XP anymore).
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Post by Levellass »

You may want to try the carbon electrodes you find in batteries. (In a pinch pencil leads will do.) They're not the most efficient but have worked for me.
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Post by Keening_Product »

Chemicus was great. It has a low system load and runs on Win 98 - could you just make a virtual PC through which you could play it?
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