How much information can be hidden even in small files?

[SupFanat]

The whole forum shows interesting thing. The size of the official Commander Keen games is very tiny. Textual description of all discovered features in these games needs much more storage place than the games themselves.

So, the game itself can store much more information per byte than the textual descriptions of this game that we can write. Textual description of some level would need more bytes than the binary code of this level and textual description wouldn't define the positions of all objects as precious as the binary file.

[VikingBoyBilly]

That's the mark of a good game

Games post-millenia are leaning to the opposite ideal–i.e., cramming in little and useless information in as big of a bloated "content" and "experience" as possible.

[lemm]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.kkrieger
Only 97 kilobytes! That's smaller than Keen!

[Levellass]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.kkrieger
Only 97 kilobytes! That's smaller than Keen!

Truly it is awesome. Think what we could do with it, if only it were as awesome as Keen.

So, the game itself can store much more information per byte than the textual descriptions of this game that we can write. Textual description of some level would need more bytes than the binary code of this level and textual description wouldn't define the positions of all objects as precious as the binary file.

There are several issues here; the first is that text is an exceedingly poor way to store information. Imagine for example a donut. Try and describe the donut. Not only its shape, but its texture, color flavors, arrangement of icing and sprinkles (Or absence thereof.) You could write a small book. A picture however gives us a pretty good idea. (Worth a thousand words indeed.)

Compressing descriptions into simple EGA images with maybe a few arrows as annotation would present the same information in a much more compact form. Doing so as a webpage or macro that constructs the image from the game graphics would result in even further compression.


The second issue is that the games are combinatorial. Think of the numbers 0-9; a few bytes of information. Yet with them you can build an infinite number of.. numbers. The games too are like this; a set of tiles and sprites plus a map explaining how they are set up to make an array of levels. Two tiles (1 back, one fore) can be combined in 4 ways per map square, 8 tiles in 16 ways, 100 tiles in 10'000 ways. Keen's default maps haven't covered even a trillionth of what's possible, even ignoring the many 'nonsense' mappings.

To see this look at a high-def video of the game. This cannot use the original game files and so must construct the game as a moving image. A lossless recording will compile at the rate of over 10 MB per minute. A full gaming experience wouldn't fit on a Blu-Ray DVD.


Finally there is the issue of the human element. Your brain contains a massive amount of information, massive. When you start up Keen there is so much you 'know'; that is a door, that's how gravity works, you can jump over stuff... Look at the anger that arises when something we 'know' is false. 'This level was terrible, those hazards didn't look like foreground tiles!' for example.

In Keen I can go through the obvious doorway, jump over the spikes and get the cake. Or die on the spikes, or jump over the cake or... The game can code this with a few bytes of map and rely on us to understand. But writing must be more specific, it names things, and inefficiently too. It cannot rely on simple memory.

And humans add randomness. Get a computer to play Keen. It will play the same way each time, Tool Assisted Speedruns are good examples. The 'randomness', the variety we experience that is only possible because humans themselves are random and explorative.


In the end there is a limit to how much information you can compress into a given amount of space, but the more you rely on the human brain the more experience you can fit in. I can say 'I would like the main designer of the unofficial Commander Keen sequels "The Universe Is Toast" to release the latest version of these games in which he has fixed a number of issues and improved things by using more advanced modding techniques.' or I could say 'Lick! The TUIT remake, give, now!' One is more easily understood by outsiders but both should be comprehensible to their target audience.


Or, to put another view on it, altering two bytes of information removes the pogo from Keen 1. This significantly alters the gameplay, making it impossible to finish. But how much 'information' did I change? Half of it? More? No, what I altered was experience.

[SupFanat]

Demo files need much less space than videos of gameplay. Unfortunately, there isn't any easy way to record and replay the demos in the official Commander Keen games. Custom remake might add the possibility to record demos automatically but I don't know any such remake.

[VikingBoyBilly]

Finally there is the issue of the human element. Your brain contains a massive amount of information, massive. When you start up Keen there is so much you 'know'; that is a door, that's how gravity works, you can jump over stuff...

Why won't animals and plant life understand a door or gravity in a dos game when they're looking straight at it, why???!

Also, double posting gigantic paragraphs of texts is the coolest idea ever

[Levellass]

Demo files need much less space than videos of gameplay. Unfortunately, there isn't any easy way to record and replay the demos in the official Commander Keen games. Custom remake might add the possibility to record demos automatically but I don't know any such remake.

In Keen Galaxy at least you can record the files then import them into the game. Coding up a way to play external demo files should be possible but would require patching.

One of the big things demos do is remove randomness; when recording a demo level note how it plays exactly the same each time. (As long as you do not do anything different.)

[SupFanat]

Demo files need much less space than videos of gameplay. Unfortunately, there isn't any easy way to record and replay the demos in the official Commander Keen games. Custom remake might add the possibility to record demos automatically but I don't know any such remake.

In Keen Galaxy at least you can record the files then import them into the game. Coding up a way to play external demo files should be possible but would require patching.

One of the big things demos do is remove randomness; when recording a demo level note how it plays exactly the same each time. (As long as you do not do anything different.)

Ideally it should be possible to record demos automatically and to respect the choice of user "please no annoying two-button firing" in the demos as well. (I think I saw a patch which disables two-button firing in demos a long time ago, thank you!).

[KeenEmpire]

Hmm, how random are the normal levels?

[Nospike]

Hmm, how random are the normal levels?

Monster movement and actions are different.

[VikingBoyBilly]

Hmm, how random are the normal levels?

Monster movement and actions are different.

Not really. It's all RNG stuff.

[Levellass]

Hmm, how random are the normal levels?

Monster movement and actions are different.

Not really. It's all RNG stuff.

Which is sorta what he said.

Basically many enemies have behaviors that ask the RNG if they can do something, such as the Poison Slugs and their sliming. This isn't exactly a 'different' movement and action but it does affect gameplay. It is possible for example to play a game where no slugs slime ever. The RNG depends on the time, how long the game has been played so far and the frame. This gives a nearly infinite number of possible games, though most will be pretty similar.

Of course with patching it's possible to make levels that assemble themselves semi-randomly from blocks. I've been working on this and may or may not do something with it.

[VikingBoyBilly]

Of course with patching it's possible to make levels that assemble themselves semi-randomly from blocks. I've been working on this and may or may not do something with it.

Sounds like the Labyrinth in Pathways into Darkness. Or animal crossing.