Attention Americans (and non-americans)

A general chat area, here you can post anything that doesn't belong in another forum.
User avatar
Rorie
Tru-Blu Aussie Born & Bred
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 22:27
Location: Australia

Post by Rorie » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:01

Paramultart wrote:
Rorie wrote:...there is no gruesome crime that can ever convince the people to ever do away with their 2nd amendment rights!
Because they're just that... Rights.

Not "privileges".

There is no tragedy great enough that will ever justify taking guns away from responsible gun owners, no matter how much the media sensationalizes it.

Dylann Roof clearly stated in his manifesto that he was outraged and inspired by the Trayvon Martin case when he shot up that church, and Bryce Williams clearly stated in his manifesto that he was outraged and inspired by the Dylann Roof case and wanted to avenge the Charleston victims.

Do you see the pattern her?

America doesn't have a gun problem, it has a media problem...

Race-baiting killed that news reporter and cameraman by outraging the mentally unstable, impulsive, gay, black, disgruntled man

And how do the president and Hillary Clinton respond?
By tweeting "We need to stop this madness... BAN GUNS NAOOOW!"

You don't have to be a "conspiracy theorist" to realize that this is all by design.

The people in power of our government are doing everything they can to abolish the individual rights of the states as well as our bill of rights. Part of that is introducing a federalized police force, which is why the media is attacking police officers so much, and disarming every citizen so that they may be easier to control.
America is a sad sad place when you have the people defending what they don't understand, I don't hate America or Americans, I just hate it how the country is tearing itself apart with gun violence and the GOP & NRA are the ones responsible for all of this "more guns less control" rubbish!

I mean it is free speech right? I am entitled to my own opinion even if my critics disagree with me right?
If you can't change the rules, challenge them, rules are made to be broken
Up yours Fleexy!

User avatar
Levellass
S-Triazine
Posts: 5261
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:40

Post by Levellass » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:55

They're also arbitrary. That is, they are not laws of the universe nor even logical results when working from same basic principles. A bunch of men sat around and said 'These would be some real nice ideas.'

It is foolish to claim that so few had some special insight or that simply labeling something a 'right' settles the argument. It has been considered the right of a man to sex with their partner at any time irrespective of consent for example.

Any tragedy is grounds for questioning things, this is the great thing about democracy, the people have a voice. Things can change, amendments can be added. No change should be taken lightly, do acts of terrorism necessitate the ineffective and massively expensive TSA? But in the end refusing to even discuss something, putting change out of reach is not freedom it is the opposite. This can be an uncomfortable thing, but comfort is a wonderful sedative.
What you really need, not what you think you ought to want.

User avatar
Keening_Product
Kuliwho?
Posts: 2083
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:02
Location: Tied up in the Oracle Chamber's basement
Contact:

Post by Keening_Product » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:03

"There is no tragedy great enough that will ever justify taking guns away from responsible gun owners, no matter how much the media sensationalizes it. "

Port Arthur, Australia. That happened, we did it, mass shootings in the 19 years since? 0. Suicides? Down. Please, for once, consider the view of someone on the left without thinking they're the worst thing in the world. Actually, it was a RIGHT WING, RACIST government that cracked down on Australia's guns. The same borderline fascist PM who was incredibly close to Bush. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arth ... Australia)

Stop tying this to race. Race may sometimes be a motivator (though I say that from a different angle to you, I think), but the mental instability you mention is the real factor. Mental instability and easy access to guns is the key reason for shootings.

The American liberalism experiment is a spectacular failure - violent extremists of all kinds dominate in the country. There's a good reason much of the rest of the world looks on in dismay.
Image
"Wise words. One day I may even understand what they mean." - Levellass

User avatar
Paramultart
VBB's Partner in Crime
Posts: 3004
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:36

Post by Paramultart » Sat Aug 29, 2015 14:42

keening_product wrote:...stop tying this to race.
It was a racially motivated crime... Just like the racially motivated crime that inspired it.

Can we stop living in topsy-turvey land for five minutes?
"Father Mabeuf was surveying his plants"

User avatar
Levellass
S-Triazine
Posts: 5261
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:40

Post by Levellass » Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:54

I suggest to avoid all possible controversy and also media hype we report all gun violence as:

'Today some dipwad shot three people because he's a moron.' We can use a photo of Putin to represent all the shooters.
What you really need, not what you think you ought to want.

User avatar
Keening_Product
Kuliwho?
Posts: 2083
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:02
Location: Tied up in the Oracle Chamber's basement
Contact:

Post by Keening_Product » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:02

I mean stop tying gun control to race - there are racially motivated crimes involving guns, yes, but my point is guns need to be controlled for the sake of all gun crimes.

Once again though, you have not properly responded to the evidence countering your position.
Image
"Wise words. One day I may even understand what they mean." - Levellass

User avatar
Paramultart
VBB's Partner in Crime
Posts: 3004
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:36

Post by Paramultart » Sun Aug 30, 2015 16:41

Low jab, Will, but I dropped out of that Facebook argument months ago because it was pointless and I was disrespected and outnumbered, not because I was cornered in an argument.

I don't know why you would expect any different considering I was the only one being civilized in that debate.

Heck, I still have the roughdraft of my response on my desktop that I jotted out in notepad but never sent.
FB wrote:The statistical tables for the 2010 report are no longer available from the BJS website. (In response to her complaint that the 2010 NCVS didn't have the figures referred to in the infographic.) They've since installed an interactive data search system.
You can still find the stat tables from 2008 and earlier.
White violence victims: 2.7 mil
Perpetrators: 15.4% black
White victims of black violence: 429,444
Black violence victims: 570k
Perpetrators: 15.9% white
Black victims of white violence: 90,717

Of course men are more violent. (In response to her randomly bringing up crime and gender statistics from the FBI homicide data I provided.) They also make up 77% of all homicide victims. This was never up for debate, because we have sufficient data to prove it, as we do with interracial violence.

The fact that African Americans slaughter each other in such high numbers only further illustrates their higher proclivity for violence.

The issue being discussed here is interracial crime, and African Americans are the leading perpetrators, contrary to disproportionate media coverage and politically motivated black victimization attempts.
I invite anyone to make a list briefly summarizing every opinion/statement I've made that you feel is incorrect and I will gladly support my stance, whether it be citing sources or providing my own personal testimony. (Read as: Useless anecdotal evidence.)
"Father Mabeuf was surveying his plants"

User avatar
VikingBoyBilly
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 4155
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:06
Location: The spaghetti island of the faces of dinosaur world for a vacation

Post by VikingBoyBilly » Sun Aug 30, 2015 19:53

If there's gonna be gun control, I'm gonna buy a bow and some arrows. If I can still get a gun, I want a bow anyway. The things are actually deadlier than the standard [mumbo jumbo language] pistol, you know.
Image
"I don't trust players. Not one bit." - Levellass

User avatar
DaVince
lazy/busy Keener
Posts: 1476
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 15:34
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Contact:

Post by DaVince » Sun Aug 30, 2015 21:04

I'm gonna get me some blow darts!

...Wait, I live in a country where gun possession is illegal anyway. Never mind!
Wow look at me I'm lurking

User avatar
VikingBoyBilly
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 4155
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:06
Location: The spaghetti island of the faces of dinosaur world for a vacation

Post by VikingBoyBilly » Sun Aug 30, 2015 22:18

The netherlands is an Orwellian totalitarian dictatorship where everyone's thoughts and opinions are all controlled by the government and speech is regulated as a direct result of gun ownership being made illegal? We must look at this country as an example for all pro-gun ownership lobbyists in the U.S. to use as proof to achieve a one-sided victory in this long-standing debate!

Or is it actually the opposite of what I said, where it's a utopian society because nobody can figure out any way to kill anybody without guns, removing the need for self-defense and the government is not taking advantage of having a monopoly over this powerful possession? (has anybody noticed the word monopoly is an oxymoron?) It can't be anything in-between, we know that for certain for every political comic that's ever been made since the invention of the printing press.
Image
"I don't trust players. Not one bit." - Levellass

User avatar
DaVince
lazy/busy Keener
Posts: 1476
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 15:34
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Contact:

Post by DaVince » Sun Aug 30, 2015 23:09

VikingBoyBilly wrote:The netherlands is an Orwellian totalitarian dictatorship where everyone's thoughts and opinions are all controlled by the government and speech is regulated as a direct result of gun ownership being made illegal? We must look at this country as an example for all pro-gun ownership lobbyists in the U.S. to use as proof to achieve a one-sided victory in this long-standing debate!

Or is it actually the opposite of what I said, where it's a utopian society because nobody can figure out any way to kill anybody without guns, removing the need for self-defense and the government is not taking advantage of having a monopoly over this powerful possession? (has anybody noticed the word monopoly is an oxymoron?) It can't be anything in-between, we know that for certain for every political comic that's ever been made since the invention of the printing press.
Hate to break it to you, but it's somewhere inbetween the two. I'll leave it up to your imagination where. :evil
Wow look at me I'm lurking

User avatar
Paramultart
VBB's Partner in Crime
Posts: 3004
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:36

Post by Paramultart » Sun Aug 30, 2015 23:32

Leftist "satire" is poison to the defenseless autistic mind.
"Father Mabeuf was surveying his plants"

User avatar
Keening_Product
Kuliwho?
Posts: 2083
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:02
Location: Tied up in the Oracle Chamber's basement
Contact:

Post by Keening_Product » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:01

How was that a "low jab"? I asked for you to actually respond to what I said.

IIRC, Sam demolished your argument on Facebook. I'll dig up the post again later and reply to that then.

Many of the world's great democracies have strong gun control laws. The NRA insisting otherwise does not make it so.
Image
"Wise words. One day I may even understand what they mean." - Levellass

User avatar
Paramultart
VBB's Partner in Crime
Posts: 3004
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:36

Post by Paramultart » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:22

Keening_Product wrote:IIRC
You don't.

I provided crime statistics and government surveys, with very little of my own personal take on the issue, simply to counter the race-baiting garbage you were posting, which is prevalent through all forms of media.

I'm not racist, but when someone posts anti-white propaganda, I'm going to point to the elephant in the room.

Your friends, who seem to be under the impression that they are civil rights heroes, started attacking me, and when cornered in their argument, gave a response like "even if you're right (which I am), what are you trying to say? White people are superior?"

They called racism, started making personal attacks against me and kept changing the subject, so I bailed.

I showed you part of the response I had intended to reply with, and told you why I discontinued the discussion. If you wanna go at it again, I'm more than willing.

Remember, the entirety of my argument is that African Americans commit the majority of interracial crimes in the US, while white-on-black crime is vastly reported more in the media.

Nothing about that statement is incorrect, and I can prove it ten times over with reputable sources.

Whether you want to blame white people for that data is one thing, but you cannot deny facts.
"Father Mabeuf was surveying his plants"

User avatar
Levellass
S-Triazine
Posts: 5261
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:40

Post by Levellass » Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:26

I would note that most criminals are incredibly racist. Most crime is homoracial. What we need is a more equitable marketplace for crime.

The problem is seperating race from class. Often it's poor people who commit the most crime and certain races that tend to be poor. There's also some wonderful differences in what *kinds* of crime are performed. Locking women in basements? Mostly white. same goes for conning people out of millions of dollars. Fortunately crime levels have been dropping steadily in the US even as gun ownership rates have. Coincidence? Probably, yes.

In summary I am eating mashed potatoes.
Last edited by Levellass on Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:48, edited 1 time in total.
What you really need, not what you think you ought to want.

Post Reply