Attention Americans (and non-americans)

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GoldenRishi
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Post by GoldenRishi »

Paramultart wrote:If you look at gun violence in America demographically, or if you simply live in the right (wrong) neighborhood, you will learn quickly that America does not have a gun problem to account for its high gun crime...

It has another problem. (And no... It's not le "racism". I'm talking about real issues that exist outside of Marxist university lectures.)
Racism is a made-up issue that was fabricated by Marxist university lecturers?

Yeah, that sounds like a defensible position. Feminists made up sexism from whole cloth, Marxists made up the 2008 capitalist collapse, the Jews made up the Holocaust, and so on, right?

Sorry, it's rather hard to take your position seriously. There's not a lot to say here other than your position is so ridiculous it's not even really worth addressing in full.

Rorie wrote:
Paramultart wrote:
Rorie wrote: Of course you would say that, I should have known that you have been brainwashed by the NRA and have no sense of humor, Perhaps if you actually visit Australia worked or lived here, you would have a taste of how well gun control does work instead of you continually defending guns which are not tools of safety, In fact they're killing machines, Period!

I'm sorry if you disagree with me but then we both have the right to disagree, It is Free Speech after all and we're entitled to it even if we do bash each other

And by the way Paramultart feel free to remove me from Facebook, if you are really that anti-Australian, Our own Prime Minister certainly is!
Yes, because the National Rifle Association of America has such an impact on my everyday life... There I am every morning, eating my Froot Loops, when I bite down on a hard .22 Caliber shell, with the message "MURDER = FREEDOM... KILL A MINORITY TODAY" inscribed on the hard brass cartridge.

Perhaps you're the one who needs to reevaluate the propaganda you are spoon-fed.

Until then, I will take your advice and kindly remove you from Facebook... But only because you insist.

One less pro-communist loon to hassle me.
Given the Departure of Paramultart and SyllyPride from my social media, I escalate my Assault to my critics who are part of my network to egg them into taking me off their pages, I am not surprised that they flatly reject my offer to visit Australia and experience the fact that Gun Control does work, Americans are afraid to bite the bullet and don't really want positive change which is exactly what the Republicans and NRA are against, they don't want anything to change their way of life which is giving them the right to bear arms in the claim they feel safer, The claim that More Guns, Less Crime is laughable, the answer is Less Guns, More Control!

President Obama has tried to change America for the better but the Republicans have been playing party politics and have been against him since day one, America has itself to blame by giving the Republican Party full control of Congress, Big Mistake, A even bigger mistake if a Republican like Donald Trump is elected President!
Forgive me, but both of your positions are really difficult to take seriously.

1.) What, you expect all Americans to go and visit Australia so they can see what a grand spectacle of human civilization is? Firstly, this is a particularly bizarre notion. The country that Americans visit the most is Canada, which has the same or similar forms of gun control that Australia has. And most Americans can actually afford to visit Canada, and in fact many have. So your accusation that Americans have never been in another country (which is true) that has gun control falls a bit... flat. Granted, it's only like 35% of the population.


2.) It's difficult for me to take any nationalist bellowing seriously. It's the exact same kind of unthoughtful, jingoistic rantings that are why gun control has such a problem in the US. Look, I'm sure Australia is a nice place to live. But Australia is also not pure-awesome, made-of-win fairytale land where everything is 100% functional and the whole country to perfect. It's a country, and that means people live in there, and that means that that country has problems (e.g. your country has currently made gay marriage unconsititutional, and one of the most harmful individuals in America, Rupert Murdoch, is a citizen and was educated by and raised in Australia, Australia also has had a lot of racism towards native peoples, and so on). People are flawed and that means cultures are flawed.

So no, by the same token, I won't hold this pretense of American exceptionalism, but I will say that I like my country --but not to the extent that I think all other counties are filled with raving, brain-washed lunatics. Don't get me wrong, Fox News has done it's part, but given that you're from Australia and it was an Australian who was turned Fox News into propoganda central, it might behoove you to be a little bit more humble about what your country has to offer to teach mine. And don't get me wrong, an exchange of cultures is usually good, but taking this bizarre, didactic, "my country knows better" approach to discourse is just, again, unthoughtful jingoism.


3.) I really need to emphasize this point. You have an Australian flag, a depiction of your country, a signature will nationalistic appeals, and yet you want me to take your decrying of Americans nationalism seriously? Yeah, America could do with some tighter gun control laws (or at least more efficacious ones). But you prattling on about how awesome Australia is and how much Americans are complaining about Australia (Not to be rude, but I can't remember any point in time where I've heard an American take time out of their day just to s*** on Australia. I'm sure it's happened, but it's farcical to just presume that Americans hate Australians. Ambivalence would be the best description) does nothing to make me think that you know what you're talking about. Again, I'm sure Australia is a nice place to live, but just like no one loves it when they have to listen to a person from country X talk about how ****ing epic country X is and how much everyone else should just do what country X does because country X is awesome --yeah, that's just jingoism. It's the same kind of nationalism and appeal to how awesome your own country is that makes gun control hard to implement in America.

Let me ask you a question Rorie. What countries have you been to?
Last edited by GoldenRishi on Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Paramultart »

GoldenRishi wrote: Let me ask you a question Rorie. What countries have you been to?
Hey, he visited Hawaii once, so he's pretty much an expert on American politics. Lol. :lol

And hey, there's nothing wrong with Nationalism, assuming you have a homogeneous people who actually stand for something. #hitlerdidnothingwrong
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Rorie
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Post by Rorie »

GoldenRishi wrote: Let me ask you a question Rorie. What countries have you been to?
NZ, U.S (Hawaii), UK & I took a cruise once to the South Pacific
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Rorie
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Post by Rorie »

Keening_Product wrote:It's human nature for people to ignore information that's inconvenient or doesn't fit with their world view, but it can be egged on by major events, propaganda and political movements. I wouldn't isolate it just to America, except to say the hype over the amendments from youth is bound to make discussion challenging those values difficult. We see it here in Australia too with monarchists, for example.

I'm happy I am your as a friend on Facebook Rorie, and not just because we share vastly similar political views. You seem a good guy.
KP, If this topic goes too far feel free to lock it, anyways i'm done with this thread, you can't convince Americans to change because they think their country is all picture perfect when it is not, Same goes for Australia!
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Post by Paramultart »

I don't recall ever saying my country was perfect, but the people ruining it are certainly not the constitutionalists.

Anyway, it's good to know that the mods have your permission to lock the thread. :)

I also love how anything I say gets regarded as typical American rhetoric, while in actuality, I don't believe I've ever met anyone who actually agrees with me.

Most of my friends and even my somewhat-conservative family has practically disowned me for my "extreme beliefs".

The problem here is your own ethnocentrism, so I find it a tad ironic that I would be painted as some kind of ignorant bigot (which I don't really mind) while you guys make generalizations left and right and about Americans.
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Post by Keening_Product »

I don't think I've generalised in this thread actually (so hey, that comment was mildly ironic), but I cbf fact checking that as that seems not to be the way things work here.

Rorie, I can't lock threads. I'm not a mod, just a spam zapping bot with opinions.
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Post by GoldenRishi »

Rorie wrote:
Keening_Product wrote:It's human nature for people to ignore information that's inconvenient or doesn't fit with their world view, but it can be egged on by major events, propaganda and political movements. I wouldn't isolate it just to America, except to say the hype over the amendments from youth is bound to make discussion challenging those values difficult. We see it here in Australia too with monarchists, for example.

I'm happy I am your as a friend on Facebook Rorie, and not just because we share vastly similar political views. You seem a good guy.
KP, If this topic goes too far feel free to lock it, anyways i'm done with this thread, you can't convince Americans to change because they think their country is all picture perfect when it is not, Same goes for Australia!
Right. As soon as someone lodges a valid complaint against your argumentation and content, it's time to pack up your bags, but not before calling all Americans delusional. Yeah, these assertions are very compelling. I'm sure that every American who hears this brilliance is going to suddenly change their minds about gun control.


Look, Rorie, even if your intent was to help the United States impose better gun control --which I doubt, I suspect this is more about you yelling at people on the internet under the pretenses of supporting a good cause-- then you're going about this the wrong way. Calling all Americans fanatics/brainwashed because they disagree with you or critique a point that you've made is not an appropriate response, and it's even less appropriate if, indeed, you want Americans to really consider your arguments. Ad hominem attacks are not particularly known for convincing the people that you're insulting. Even if it's true that Americans are brainwashed, you're essentially telling someone that you think they're too stupid or ignorant to understand your point. That's a sure way to make sure they're going to ignore you.

More to the point, it's sort of silly to boldly declare that all Americans think that America is picture-perfect two posts after I, an American, told you that no country was perfect and that I agree with you that better gun control measures should be in place in America. It's also quite telling that you've totally disregarded the issues I raised about your own overt nationalism.
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Post by VikingBoyBilly »

I suddenly changed my mind about gun control.

edit: I'm convinced because I was insulted.
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Post by Flaose »

Keening_Product wrote:Rorie, I can't lock threads. I'm not a mod, just a spam zapping bot with opinions.
You definitely can! :)

I might not have been very clear when I modded you and 'lass (as it was more to combat a growing spam problem), but you are free to exercise all mod powers, including moving, locking, and deleting threads, whenever you feel it is necessary or warranted, as well as editing others' posts (but only with extreme discretion and transparency).
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Post by Paramultart »

I think a great deal of respect is due to the members of this community who continually choose to keep the peace here, out of pure respect for this community and its innocent users, regardless of the way they're continually mistreated.
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Rorie
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Post by Rorie »

It Appears that I have these options

1: Get the fucl out of PCKF!
2: Shut The Hell up
3: Apologize for any offense but stick firm to my beliefs
4: Apologize but completely rescind Every thing that I have said about Americans

I Lean towards the last 2 options in my list
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Post by Levellass »

Paramultart wrote:I don't recall ever saying my country was perfect, but the people ruining it are certainly not the constitutionalists.
Good lord constitutionalists. Businesses funding politicians is free speech as guaranteed by the constitution. We must keep government from meddling with individuals! Gay marriage is an abomination and should be legally prevented, the government must interfere with individuals. It's... in the constitution somewhere...
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Post by VikingBoyBilly »

Rorie wrote:It Appears that I have these options

1: Get the fucl out of PCKF!
2: Shut The Hell up
3: Apologize for any offense but stick firm to my beliefs
4: Apologize but completely rescind Every thing that I have said about Americans

I Lean towards the last 2 options in my list
You have a 5th option.

5) amuse me by not apologizing and continue to tell us your beliefs.
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Post by GoldenRishi »

Rorie wrote:It Appears that I have these options

1: Get the fucl out of PCKF!
2: Shut The Hell up
3: Apologize for any offense but stick firm to my beliefs
4: Apologize but completely rescind Every thing that I have said about Americans

I Lean towards the last 2 options in my list
Rorie, that's a spurious characterization of what I'm saying, if not an outright strawman. I have not told you to leave, I have not told you to shut up, I have not asked you to apologize, and I have not asked you to rescind everything you've said about Americans. Even Paralmultart for all of his rather combative positions hasn't even said this, so far as I've followed the thread.

I suspect this is a plea for sympathy to divert attention from the fact that after two or three posts, you still won't address what was forwarded to you as a constructive critique of your beliefs and behavior in promoting them. In other words, you're actually opting for the unstated option 5, which is to refuse to defend your bare assertions and instead try to paint your opponents as big meanie pants. Sorry, but I'd still prefer it if you actually just address the constructive criticism forwarded to you.
Last edited by GoldenRishi on Thu Sep 10, 2015 16:37, edited 1 time in total.
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GoldenRishi
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Post by GoldenRishi »

Levellass wrote:
Paramultart wrote:I don't recall ever saying my country was perfect, but the people ruining it are certainly not the constitutionalists.
Good lord constitutionalists. Businesses funding politicians is free speech as guaranteed by the constitution. We must keep government from meddling with individuals! Gay marriage is an abomination and should be legally prevented, the government must interfere with individuals. It's... in the constitution somewhere...
Well, the Constitutionalists wouldn't argue that there's a constitutional basis for discriminating against gays, but they would argue, rather stupidly in my opinion, that there's no constitutional basis for not discriminating against gays and thus it's okay for states to do it.

As for your comments about Citizens United giving corporations unlimited ability to further manipulate the (and indeed, an already extremely manipulated) American democratic process, that's spot on. It's ridiculous that people will actually defend rulings like this and defend the continued erosion of the American democratic process. Democracy in America is already nearly farcical, in my opinion, because of "manufactured consent" that arises when the rich and powerful own politician's careers (and thus their votes) by spending money on their elections, they own the news and media corporations and can keep their reporters "on message", their control over education, and so on. It's not helped by the fact that workers rights is basically a thing of the past (Thanks Ronald!), but that's a separate conversation. I'm not convinced it is especially better in other countries, but America certainly has a particularly virulent strain of this virus.
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