Syrian refugees

Paramultart · Post by **Paramultart** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 19:15

wiivn wrote:Basically, what you won't see on tv:

https://video.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xtf1/ ... e=55F86E97

Oh god, thank you. My video was banned.

Slayterdawg · Post by **Slayterdawg** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 19:54

What? they have no guns.

Paramultart · Post by **Paramultart** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:03

They're trying to ban Oktoberfest, one of the last remnants of German culture left in Germany, stating that it's insulting to Moose-Slums and "refugees".

Those refugees, by the way, who are like 90% male and are already rioting and causing a ruckus by rioting and complaining about their food and living conditions.

Paramultart · Post by **Paramultart** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:35

Here's the YouTube version:

https://youtu.be/ZV315xqbRK8

GoldenRishi · Post by **GoldenRishi** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 22:02

Paramultart wrote:They're trying to ban Oktoberfest, one of the last remnants of German culture left in Germany, stating that it's insulting to Moose-Slums and "refugees".

Those refugees, by the way, who are like 90% male and are already rioting and causing a ruckus by rioting and complaining about their food and living conditions.

You know who else is not only trying to ban Oktoberfest but succeeding? The white, Republican Mormons http://www.rawstory.com/2014/05/utah-be ... -40-years/.

This is the only credible request I can find online of a Muslim asking the German government to ban Oktoberfest:

Dear City council of Munich,

I am writing this letter to bring to your attention something that I
and many Muslims believe is unfair and requires attention. I would like to inform you that the Oktoberfest is an Intolerant and Anti-Islamic event. We tried to ignore the event, but there too many Un-Islamic acts done at the Oktoberfest. Such as alcohol consumption, public nudity etc.

We understand that the Oktoberfest is a yearly German tradition, but we, Muslims, can not tolerate this Un-Islamic event, because it offends us and all Muslims on the earth. We are requesting the immediate cancellation of the upcoming Oktoberfest event.

We also believe that the Oktoberfest might also offend all the Muslim refugees coming from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan. The cancellation of the Oktoberfest event will help refugees not to forget their Islamic history. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

from https://www.change.org/p/city-of-munich ... ktoberfest.

What I love is listening Rightists and religious extremists complain that other people should take their views more seriously --but don't forget that it's an absolute horror and terror when anyone else asks for governments to enforce other people's extreme religious views.

It's very important for the people in the state of Utah to have draconian drinking laws and have actually successfully stopped Oktoberfest (Unlike the Muslims, who stand no chance in hell), and it's very important to certain Muslims (almost certainly not all Muslims) try to stop other people from breaking their own personal moral codes. But of course to Republicans, the important thing is to only b**** about it when Muslims attempt it. Of course, when Mormons actually accomplish this in their personal quasi-religious state, we don't hear a peep out of Rightists. But you know, those people are of Right-wing, white religion. So maybe it's okay then?

But this is my problem in general with religion, namely that the thinking always goes "It's simply intolerable when other people try to force their moral codes down our throats, but when we do it, it's just fine because we're actually right." I think abortion is immoral, therefore no one should be allowed to have an abortion. I think that drugs are immoral, therefore no one should use drugs (unless their made by a corporation and someone makes money off of them, of course). I think that homosexual marriages are wrong, and therefore homosexual marriages should be made illegal. I think that women are inferior to men, and we shouldn't acknowledge people who think men an women are equal. Blah, blah, blah. Rinse and repeat for all the various issues that religion has been used to substantiate (sometimes on both opposing sides) various usually Rightist issues.

And my problem with racism, at least in these contexts, is that the thinking always goes "Everything above is still true, but it's WAY, WAY worse when dark-skinned people do it! It's just obviously way more unacceptable and intolerable, because, you know, dark people. They're just so dark and wrong and stuff."

Paramultart · Post by **Paramultart** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 22:19

The difference is that those white Mormons are changing laws in their own community.

Have you been to Utah? It sucks, but the Mormons seem to love it and by golly they can do whatever they'd like in their communities as far as I'm concerned.

I DO have a problem with non-Europeans FLOODING European nations, straining the economy, and everyone having to accommodate them and their religion.

It's not because they're brown, or because they have radically different beliefs... Though those are both HUGE detriments to European society... It's because it's not their home and they have no right to live there.

Europe belongs to the Europeans, and no one else. You can go "boo hoo, das waycist!" all you'd like, but it doesn't change facts.

Your entire argument is worthless as far as I'm concerned.

Post by **Levellass** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 22:45

So then, snopes.com says garg: http://m.snopes.com/ban-oktoberfest-petition/

When there's like, an actual real-world protest I'll be more convinced rather than 'This guy on the internet said!' Remember the petition for developing a Death Star? The White House had to respond to that one.

Paramultart · Post by **Paramultart** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:46

Ahh, the infallible Snopes is right on time.

Perhaps the original petition is a sham, but it reflects a very real mindset that is present all over Europe, as evidence by the 482 (and counting) supporters of the petition.

They are not interested in assimilation whatsoever. They follow their own laws and have their own agenda.
https://youtu.be/e1Btc9qMALg

VikingBoyBilly · Post by **VikingBoyBilly** » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:50

If someone disrespects you, the right thing to do is to not save their life.

Every superhero would have no problems today if only they ever learned this valuable life lesson.

GoldenRishi · Post by **GoldenRishi** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:41

Paramultart wrote:The difference is that those white Mormons are changing laws in their own community.

Have you been to Utah? It sucks, but the Mormons seem to love it and by golly they can do whatever they'd like in their communities as far as I'm concerned.

Well, we can at least agree that Utah sucks. Although the state itself is beautiful, it's unfortunate that it's so infested with the Mormon church. However, it's not accident that they own that community. Back in the day, they murdered every non-Mormon American and Native American that they could get their hands on in order to maintain their authority over the State of Utah and promote the LDS church.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauvoo_Legion#In_Utah
But particularly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre

So yes, they do own that "community" and they have set up a democratic system (Well, honestly, a borderline democratic theocracy) in their state, but they did so by massive actions of extreme violence and barbarism. And I haven't even gotten to the stuff the US did to take the US for itself. And then we'd have to get to the massive wars and global genocide that the Europe and the it colonies have conducted to keep nice, white European-background people living comfortably in their lands.

Paralmultart wrote: I DO have a problem with non-Europeans FLOODING European nations, straining the economy, and everyone having to accommodate them and their religion.

Like European settlers literally invaded the Native American, aboriginal, various Asian, Indian, African, Middle-Eastern, Pacific Islander's, and so on, lands? Like the Europeans literally destroyed their local governments and large parts of their culture --largely the ones that were most unseemly by Christian sentiments-- and essentially enslaved huge percentages of the populations, and then proceeded to spread Christianity?

No, not like that, that's what an actual invasion looks like and an actual destruction of culture looks like. Contrarily, I do not have a problem with people lageally emigrating from a country by requesting asylum (particularly from events caused by Europe's hands, although predominantly by the US/UK), and then getting citizenship in that country. And I think it goes without saying that your attempt to analogize or equate the two by using the same language is specious and absurd.

Not to mention the fact that Syrians are leaving the Middle-East en masse because of geopolitical actions of the West --in this case largely England an the US, but also the rest of them, too-- which involves a laundry list of violent actions: They invaded their lands, destabilized every government that actually helped its citizens and didn't cowtow to Western imperialism, promoted those same Right-wing religious extremists to war lords in the first place (Don't forget the fact that the West supported Osama bin Laden and many/most other terrorists because back then they were fighting the USSR with us, and we were more than happy to send guns and munitions their way), especially including the despotic dictators that the West propped up to maintain its control over their lands. And then in certain amusing cases, they conducted extremely destructive wars to remove said dictators. All of which is the only reason why ISIL/ISIS was capable of being formed in the first place, and why Syrians have been forced to leave their homes.

Paralmultart wrote: It's not because they're brown, or because they have radically different beliefs... Though those are both HUGE detriments to European society... It's because it's not their home and they have no right to live there.

Europe belongs to the Europeans, and no one else. You can go "boo hoo, das waycist!" all you'd like, but it doesn't change facts.

1.) I'm not calling your views racist because it's a rhetorical bludgeon or because I think it means I get to "win" the discussion by pointing out that your views are racist. I'm simply accurately diagnosing what the correct label for your views are, which is indisputably "racist." You just got done saying, with simply a different choice of words, that white people are the only people who belong in Europe. That's the definition of racist, Para. You can complain about me calling your views racist, but I'm calling a spade a spade. I could call your views by a different name, like bigoted. Would you prefer that?

2.) What on earth do you mean by it's a "fact" that Europe belongs to white Europeans? This is what I love about discussing topics with people who have racist views. Because in their world, "It's not racist if it's true!" So then the question becomes, "Well, isn't it a fact that dark-skinned people are less good than white Europeans?" The only thing left for the racist to do is to simplify fabricate or misconstrue the appropriate evidence to support their pre-existing racism, and now declare that it's not only okay, but actually rational to be a racist.

Which, by the way, you're falling right in line with in this discussion. You've made up evidence yourself --wholly unsubstantiated by any actual facts of the matter, in fact only against the actual evidence-- that middle-easterners are the causative factor in the increased rape statistics in Sweden --your defense of this, which was precious, was that "It wouldn't be unfair to blame them." Perhaps you should look up the definition of "motivated reasoning." Talk about shooting an arrow, drawing a bull's eye wherever it lands, and then declaring that your arguments are on point.

Paralmultart wrote:They are not interested in assimilation whatsoever.

Another bare assertion that the listener is just idly supposed to accept without question --yes, this is massively compelling. I mean, after all, it'd be outright ludicrous to suggest that people from the middle-east have moved into Western countries and have assimilated.

Don't get me wrong, the Islamic worldview is a special little cupcake sometimes, and some Muslims can be pretty hardheaded about mixing religion and government. On the other hand, the same problem exists in many/most members of the Republican party in the US, so can you really say that Islam is actually special in this regard? I don't really think so.

Post by **Levellass** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:57

Paramultart wrote:Ahh, the infallible Snopes is right on time.

Perhaps the original petition is a sham, but it reflects a very real mindset that is present all over Europe, as evidence by the 482 (and counting) supporters of the petition.

Whoah, 482 you say? That's huge, an unstoppable wave of support. Not like the Death Star petition that got a measly 34'000 signatures in a month.

Also the lovely Krutzgesagt (In a Nutshell) just did a video, with plenty of quoted research! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvOnXh3NN9w Apparently it's lost them a lot of subscribers 'cause people can't stand one video they disagree with on a channel they love. (Seriously now youtubers, man up.)

ScarletFlame · Post by **ScarletFlame** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:49

Paramultart wrote: Perhaps the original petition is a sham, but it reflects a very real mindset that is present all over Europe, as evidence by the 482 (and counting) supporters of the petition.

The only reason why there's so many signatures is because people want to comment on it

VikingBoyBilly · Post by **VikingBoyBilly** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:16

Your textwalls are too boring to read. This is my argument:

People are dying.

GoldenRishi · Post by **GoldenRishi** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 0:06

VikingBoyBilly wrote:Your textwalls are too boring to read. This is my argument:

People are dying.

I'm sorry if my words are too big and that you can't be bothered to read 3 short paragraphs at time. I recognize that this probably isn't something you're used to doing.

VikingBoyBilly · Post by **VikingBoyBilly** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:29

I'm on YOUR side, dopefish.

It's pretty obvious you don't actually read a lot of books if you don't understand that infodumping off-the-bat is easiest way to lose a reader's interest.

Socrates would not have countered Paramultart's arguments by telling him his views stem from racism (ad hominem) and laying down long-winded arguments that just makes him want to fight back more. He would tell stories, or inquire paramultart to describe where his stance is coming from to deliver character-building exposition.

You know, stuff that's interesting. It's not how long you make your sentences, but how you make it long. I disagree with some (a lot) of Paramultart's views, but he's my best friend and I respect him. My arguments were a lot smaller than yours because I chose to highlight what I feel is the most important, and while I don't want to pick sides in this, they are against his anti-syrrian immigration leanings and thus in support of you, and you have just repaid me with disrespect.

I advise you to argue like a real scholar who thirsts for new information his opponent can give him, not a history book that only pushes what it assumes is objective facts (but mostly biased opinions by the author) and is incapable of receiving input.