English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

A general chat area, here you can post anything that doesn't belong in another forum.
User avatar
szemi
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1722
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 15:19
Location: Hungary
Contact:

English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

Post by szemi »

Sometimes it gets on my nerves when I hear "I think you fail to speak English", "You are kinda Hungrish", and so on.
Since it came to mind, I tell you something:

I could say the same for those - and respect for the exceptions, who doesn't blame me for making little mistakes - , who fails to speak my mother language or fails to translate anything from English to Hungarian. I didn't and never blame anybody for speaking Hungarian bad. Instead of blaming I tried to understand what that somebody wants to say.

And one more thing: Sometimes, I make mistakes in my own mother language as well. I tell you honestly.
You can also tell me honestly that sometimes you also make mistakes in your OWN, too. ;)



P.S. Sometimes, this is why I need some help from you whenever I make a Keen mod, so it won't be "Hungrish" or "poor English". Because English is not my mother language, but I can speak it, even if I'm not perfect at it.
But if I want to write a really good Keen mod plot, I need help from you.
Yeah, piece of cake!
User avatar
troublesomekeen
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:01
Location: Three-Tooth Lake
Contact:

Re: English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

Post by troublesomekeen »

I don't mean to be demeaning and insulting,
but I find your English in many of your forum posts and Keen mods very charming (which isn't helpful at all because perfect English isn't charming in the same way).

It's probably discouraging when native English speaking persons make fun of you
but I say
thank you! If there was a Hungarian Keen Community Forum online (and maybe there is), would I try to integrate into that community with what little Hungarian I know? Not likely. (Actually I don't know any.) Cheers, szemi!
:helmet
Image
Commander Keen in... Canteloupe Quest!
User avatar
Rorie
Tru-Blu Aussie Born & Bred
Posts: 1078
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 22:27
Location: Australia

Re: English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

Post by Rorie »

Guys i do not mean to hijack this thread or anything like that, but I strongly believe that my opinion has merit

As a natural born Australian it really annoys me that we let people in who have no intention of learning the English language, Yes you have to demonstrate your knowledge in the citizenship test, but on the other hands we let foreigners in on work or study visa or permanent residence and some but not all come here and bypass the language test requirement, Now If I were going to work in a non-english speaking nation for example Norway, I would have to learn Norwegian before I could find work, Australia is no exception, you come here to live or to work, Learn the Language and stop treating Australia like your personal playground!, Ok my rant is over
If you can't change the rules, challenge them, rules are made to be broken
Up yours Fleexy!
User avatar
szemi
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1722
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 15:19
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Re: English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

Post by szemi »

troublesomekeen wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:34 I don't mean to be demeaning and insulting,
but I find your English in many of your forum posts and Keen mods very charming (which isn't helpful at all because perfect English isn't charming in the same way).

It's probably discouraging when native English speaking persons make fun of you
but I say
thank you! If there was a Hungarian Keen Community Forum online (and maybe there is), would I try to integrate into that community with what little Hungarian I know? Not likely. (Actually I don't know any.) Cheers, szemi!
:helmet
Well, let me tell some things about it:

1. Nothing is forced. Don't you know?

2. Hungarian Keen Community:
There are a few hungarians here on PCKF, including me, just to tell you and I'm the only (active!) hungarian Keener, who makes/made different mods. Check for Keen 10, the Martinez series, etc.
Those don't have 100% perfect English either, I know that.

3. Native English speakers would make fun of me just because I speak "poor" or "s**t English":
Well, what if I did the same as a native Hungarian speaker? Then I should make fun of those people, who speaks "charming" Hungarian or "Engrish"? (Comparing to my "Hungrish" according to some people.) No, I'm not that. Do you know? And to tell you a true example, on YouTube I received 1-2 gibberish hungarian comments from somebody (which were translated in Google Translator). I didn't do anything, I understood what he/she wanted to say from 1 word and I didn't tell that "Learn to speak Hungarian properly", etc. That's all! This is me!!!

4. As for Rorie:
Now If I were going to work in a non-english speaking nation for example Norway, I would have to learn Norwegian before I could find work
Same goes for all countries, including mine, too
you come here to live or to work, Learn the Language and stop treating Australia like your personal playground!, Ok my rant is over
You know what? Do this in my country instead of ranting.

Australia is no exception
And so are all countries anyway.
Yeah, piece of cake!
User avatar
Roobar
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 3267
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 16:12
Contact:

Re: English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

Post by Roobar »

If people continue to tell you your English sucks then they're probably right. There's only one right thing you can do: go to school and learn it better.
User avatar
szemi
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1722
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 15:19
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Re: English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

Post by szemi »

Roobar wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2017 13:33 If people continue to tell you your English sucks then they're probably right. There's only one right thing you can do: go to school and learn it better.
Some people told it. For them I say: Do it with Hungarian, my mother language, too.
Yeah, piece of cake!
User avatar
Roobar
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 3267
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 16:12
Contact:

Re: English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

Post by Roobar »

szemi wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2017 14:17
Roobar wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2017 13:33 If people continue to tell you your English sucks then they're probably right. There's only one right thing you can do: go to school and learn it better.
Some people told it. For them I say: Do it with Hungarian, my mother language, too.
You're missing a point. If Hungarian language was what English language is to the world, then I would have learned Hungarian instead. If this was the case, all of us here would be writing in Hungarian. But English is far more used around the globe and much more popular than your language. So unless I plan to live in Hungary, I don't see a point to learn your language.
User avatar
szemi
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1722
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 15:19
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Re: English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

Post by szemi »

But English is far more used around the globe and much more popular than your language. So unless I plan to live in Hungary, I don't see a point to learn your language.
I never said Hungarian is the most popular language in the world and you are forced to learn it. That's all. Try to understand it.
Yeah, piece of cake!
User avatar
Roobar
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 3267
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 16:12
Contact:

Re: English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

Post by Roobar »

Yes, I'm trying, but all I can take from your statement in the beginning is that you just don't want to improve your English. I'm fine with that, btw.
User avatar
keenmaster486
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 542
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 18:29
Location: Tranquility Base
Contact:

Re: English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

Post by keenmaster486 »

We can't expect native speakers to be perfectly fluent in English.

It does happen to be the "universal" language nowadays, which is pretty much the only reason ANYONE outside of native speaking countries is bothering to learn it at all.

It's super cool that there is no effective language barrier between us and people across the globe like Szemi, and frankly I don't give a damn how good he is with his English grammar because it's not his native language.

Now, if his Hungarian sucks then that's another matter.
I flermmed the plootash just like you asked.
User avatar
szemi
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 1722
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 15:19
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Re: English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

Post by szemi »

@Roobar: Improving? I want to improve and I improve. Both.

@keenmaster486: Just because I (sometimes) make mistakes in my own mother language doesn't mean I suck it. It's like I'm better from English to Hungarian translation or vice versa.
Yeah, piece of cake!
User avatar
Rorie
Tru-Blu Aussie Born & Bred
Posts: 1078
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 22:27
Location: Australia

Re: English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

Post by Rorie »

szemi wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:34 4. As for Rorie:
Now If I were going to work in a non-english speaking nation for example Norway, I would have to learn Norwegian before I could find work
Same goes for all countries, including mine, too
you come here to live or to work, Learn the Language and stop treating Australia like your personal playground!, Ok my rant is over
You know what? Do this in my country instead of ranting.

Australia is no exception
And so are all countries anyway.
Mate I have the utmost respect for you and if I were going to move to Hungary for whatever reason including the non-english speaking world, I would gladly learn the Hungarian Language, I would have to otherwise I would not get very far in barriers such as work & citizenship, in return for this I ask that all future Australians learn and speak my language that is only fair, it is stupid that the Federal Opposition is treating the proposed citizenship amendments for Australian Citizenship like it is the lottery, these amendments are needed to show those that Australian Citizenship is not something that is written on paper, it will prove to those that you have to earn it and not only attend a ceremony as most Future Aussies choose to be given their certificates on Australia Day which is typically January 26th each year
If you can't change the rules, challenge them, rules are made to be broken
Up yours Fleexy!
User avatar
nanomekia
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 19:11
Location: FARM COUNTRY!
Contact:

Re: English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

Post by nanomekia »

Okay, as a translator I should probably chime in here.

Szemi's English isn't perfect, no. It's not his mother tongue and (as far as I know) he hasn't grown up speaking it as a second language. There are some moments where I do have to tilt my head and think a little bit about what he's meant to say but in all honesty, I think his English really isn't bad. You can generally understand what he's getting at and he is in fact trying. I respect that.

(In fact, I think this may explain some of why he comes off as rude when he's not trying to - it's a matter of nuance. English is full of little subtleties you can't really get used to until you've been using them for a while, and when you're not used to those subtleties, you speak very bluntly. That's really more how he comes off to me, blunt, not rude.)

On the other hand: it could be improved. Sure. What can't be improved? I'm a native English speaker who's grown up speaking it for three decades and I'm still improving my own vocabulary. It's a process, and often a really dratted slow one at that. I do, however, see how it comes off as you not wanting to improve, Szemi - and I understand that. It's embarrassing and hurtful to be told you sound like you don't want to do anything about a less than ideal situation, and the instinctive response to that is to lash out and pretend everything is just fine. Making excuses and not wanting to admit one's own flaws is just human nature, I do plenty of that myself. It's the one failing I have the most trouble trying to get over as a translator - I hate to be told I've said/written something wrong, it utterly humiliates me and to be quite honest that hurts a lot. So I try not to put myself in situations where I might need to be corrected, and if I do have to be corrected it's so hard not to lash out and insist I know precisely what I'm doing and it's just being mean to correct me. I have to approach it from the angle of "this person means well", which takes so much more conscious effort than "this person is trying to embarrass me".

It takes a lot of bravery and some brass bollocks to put your translations out where other people could potentially pick at them, and honestly I'm impressed with Szemi for doing just that, even wth his imperfect English.

*climbs off soapbox*
Last edited by nanomekia on Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:48, edited 1 time in total.
Writer. Translator. Player of games. Only bites when asked nicely.

"That's ten pounds of yikes in a five-pound bag."
ScarletFlame
Vortininja
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:48

Re: English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

Post by ScarletFlame »

My English isn't perfect either and I'm a native English speaker :lol. You're much better than most people I think, mostly because your on an English message board.
RESTING SPACE
EXPLORER FACE
chrissifniotis
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:33
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: English speaking AKA I fail or don't fail at it?

Post by chrissifniotis »

nanomekia wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2017 22:37 Okay, as a translator I should probably chime in here.

Szemi's English isn't perfect, no. It's not his mother tongue and (as far as I know) he hasn't grown up speaking it as a second language. There are some moments where I do have to tilt my head and think a little bit about what he's meant to say but in all honesty, I think his English really isn't bad. You can generally understand what he's getting at and he is in fact trying. I respect that.

(In fact, I think this may explain some of why he comes off as rude when he's not trying to - it's a matter of nuance. English is full of little subtleties you can't really get used to until you've been using them for a while, and when you're not used to those subtleties, you speak very bluntly. That's really more how he comes off to me, blunt, not rude.)

On the other hand: it could be improved. Sure. What can't be improved? I'm a native English speaker who's grown up speaking it for three decades and I'm still improving my own vocabulary. It's a process, and often a really dratted slow one at that. I do, however, see how it comes off as you not wanting to improve, Szemi - and I understand that. It's embarrassing and hurtful to be told you sound like you don't want to do anything about a less than ideal situation, and the instinctive response to that is to lash out and pretend everything is just fine. Making excuses and not wanting to admit one's own flaws is just human nature, I do plenty of that myself. It's the one failing I have the most trouble trying to get over as a translator - I hate to be told I've said/written something wrong, it utterly humiliates me and to be quite honest that hurts a lot. So I try not to put myself in situations where I might need to be corrected, and if I do have to be corrected it's so hard not to lash out and insist I know precisely what I'm doing and it's just being mean to correct me. I have to approach it from the angle of "this person means well", which takes so much more conscious effort than "this person is trying to embarrass me".

It takes a lot of bravery and some brass bollocks to put your translations out where other people could potentially pick at them, and honestly I'm impressed with Szemi for doing just that, even wth his imperfect English.

*climbs off soapbox*
Fantastic Nanomekia. I completely agree with everything here.
Post Reply