Gun Ownership

Djaser · Post by **Djaser** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:25

Rorie, it's almost amusing that you seem to think that repeating your claims is a valid discussing method.

StupidBunny · Post by **StupidBunny** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 20:09

I just have to point out--again--that taking away the right to own weapons isn't going to end gun violence in the US. If you take away people's right to own weapons, they're only going to get pissed. And if people really want guns they'll get them. Abolishing the 2nd amendment would probably fuel a black market in weapons, which would if anything lead to even more egregious gun violence. In countries where owning guns isn't a traditional right, people aren't going to freak out as much if guns are made illegal. Many Americans are protective of their right to own guns, and if Obama abolishes the 2nd amendment (which he almost certainly won't, by the way) people aren't just going to be okay with it.

Yes, I know I've said all this before. But you haven't actually tried countering it so I feel the need to reemphasize my point.

Marty Chang · Post by **Marty Chang** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 19:32

StupidBunny wrote:I just have to point out--again--that taking away the right to own weapons isn't going to end gun violence in the US. If you take away people's right to own weapons, they're only going to get pissed. And if people really want guns they'll get them. Abolishing the 2nd amendment would probably fuel a black market in weapons, which would if anything lead to even more egregious gun violence. In countries where owning guns isn't a traditional right, people aren't going to freak out as much if guns are made illegal. Many Americans are protective of their right to own guns, and if Obama abolishes the 2nd amendment (which he almost certainly won't, by the way) people aren't just going to be okay with it.

Yes, I know I've said all this before. But you haven't actually tried countering it so I feel the need to reemphasize my point.

This. It's the prohibition lesson. Making something illegal only creates a black market for it. It happened with alcohol, it's happening right now with illegal drugs, and if you ban guns outright, it's going to happen to them. Making guns illegal only hurts law abiding citizens, and strengthens criminals.

Rorie · Post by **Rorie** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 0:37

i still think that the 2nd amendment should be abolished because i do believe it is an excuse to murder. if you do want to lock the thread go ahead but my views will not change. if america wants to become a friendly nation (the so called land of the free) HA! i will never believe that until 2nd amendment is gone & the country has universal health coverage. no wonder the world hates america. it is to do the gun problem & it is appalling that the government doesn't want to do anything about all they can say is. every american is entitled to a gun to defend his/herself. that would never get accepted as a defence in australia so why should it in the united states

Lava89 · Post by **Lava89** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:41

You're peeved about health care and gun rights and you haven't even gotten to our foreign affairs yet, man...America must really have it in for you.

Rorie · Post by **Rorie** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:51

Lava89 wrote:You're peeved about health care and gun rights and you haven't even gotten to our foreign affairs yet, man...America must really have it in for you.

america pokes their nose into canada & australia. so why can't we australians poke our nose into america?

you americans are not bad people it is your government that is the problem

Marty Chang · Post by **Marty Chang** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:38

The 2nd Amendment is an excuse for murder?

The Bill of Rights wrote:A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I fail to see how allowing people to own weapons is an excuse for murder. It's almost as if you're pretending the only way to kill somebody is by using a gun.

I also think it's really funny that you say that America can only be the Land of the Free if it restricts the rights of responsible gun owners.

Also, don't tell me that "A well regulated Militia" doesn't refer to individuals, because the Supreme Court would beg to differ.

Lava89 · Post by **Lava89** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:47

Rorie wrote: america pokes their nose into canada & australia. so why can't we australians poke our nose into america?

Haha, what does that have anything to do with what I said?

Galaxieretter · Post by **Galaxieretter** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 23:45

Rorie wrote:i still think that the 2nd amendment should be abolished because i do believe it is an excuse to murder.

Rorie, there is no such thing as an excuse to murder. Murder is murder and has happened since the dawn of time. "Gun" murder is no different than knifing or stoning.

Besides, if we abolish gun rights why not CIVIL rights? Women's suffrage? What's to stop the government from doing that? The second amendment is in the CONSTITUTION of the United States of America. The constitution defines the basic laws, rights, structure of the government in the United States. It outlines the jobs of the president and congress. You fucl with that you fucl with the very fabric of what holds this nation together. The closer the amendment is to the actual, basic principals of the base document of the constitution the greater of an importance it is to all laws and such within the United States.

Judges can not make rulings that directly go against anything stated in the constitution. Congress can not pass laws that contradict the constitution without passing an amendment.

If you remove the second amendment than that pretty much means that any amendment after that is pretty much worth jack. Besides, you might as well directly change the constitution because the first few amendments were written by the SAME PEOPLE who wrote the constitution anyway.

Pretty much, remove the second amendment and all we have left is the first amendment which guarantees the right to free speech. Where would we be without that?

Rorie wrote:if america wants to become a friendly nation (the so called land of the free) HA! i will never believe that until 2nd amendment is gone & the country has universal health coverage.

WHAT? "So called?" I'm not that much of a patriot but I don't understand your view here. I admit that the tragedies against the natives and blacks are bad but they happened WAY before anyone alive was even born. Pretty much this is about as free as it gets. I mean you have to live within restrictions but one of the freedoms is the right to "Keep and bare arms." This not only includes firearms but also knives, swords, bombs and technically things like cannons and their modern counterparts such as tanks, missiles, artillery and the like. While most people do not want these things they should be allowed to have them if they so desire.

Rorie wrote:no wonder the world hates america. it is to do the gun problem & it is appalling that the government doesn't want to do anything about all they can say is. every american is entitled to a gun to defend his/herself. that would never get accepted as a defence in australia so why should it in the united states

The constitution specifically states that the second amendment is to be kept for the arming of the militia.

Rorie wrote:america pokes their nose into canada & australia. so why can't we australians poke our nose into america?

you americans are not bad people it is your government that is the problem

Hey, I'm with you all the way here. Laissez faire for foreign policy all the way!

Marty Chang · Post by **Marty Chang** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:40

Galaxieretter wrote:The second amendment is in the CONSTITUTION of the United States of America.

No it isn't. The Bill of Rights was a separate document written by Anti-Federalists who feared that the Constution was not a specific enough paper.

If you remove the second amendment than that pretty much means that any amendment after that is pretty much worth jack.

So the repealing of the 18th Amendment (prohibition of alcohol) by the 21st Amendment means that Amendments are worthless? Also, how does removing the 2nd Amendment remove the worth from, say, the 22nd Amendment (limiting the President to two terms)?

Pretty much, remove the second amendment and all we have left is the first amendment which guarantees the right to free speech. Where would we be without that?

You act like the 25 other Amendments don't exist.

The constitution specifically states that the second amendment is to be kept for the arming of the militia.

It technically grants individuals the right to bear arms, according to District of Columbia v. Miller. "Militia" refers to a group, which some people take to mean the Army Reserve or Coast Guard.

Not that I disagree with you, just felt like setting you straight.

Rorie · Post by **Rorie** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:21

look i hate to admit this but i should not have poked my nose into america's problems yes you may have a black man entering the white house next month but that is still no excuse for me to attack the one thing that makes most americans feel safer & that is the right to hold a firearm we australians are allowed to hold firearms we just have stricter laws on gun ownership in australia the customs & police here do their best to enforce the law but even some authorities cannot stop all the guns that come to australia illegally. yes america may now finally be getting national health care that if congress (which is now controlled by the democrats) isn't brought out by the private health insurance companies which is what the world saw under bill clinton. the companies paid off the republicans by sponsoring their re-election campaigns of course they would have voted against it either way i apologize again & i also admit i need to stop jumping the gun on american society i believe that their are some nice americans out there & they do not want trouble