Capitalism A Love Story

Rorie · Post by **Rorie** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:17

went to see micheal moore's latest doco. and it was quite shocking and informative like all his other films. thanx to this movie i learnt that capitalism is evil & that big companies can take out huge life insurance payments against their employees. in fact one employee died & that company became the beneficiary of over us$1 million. some americans call moore a liar but i strongly believe he is a good person in fact you americans should be thanking him. if it wasn't for his last flim sicko then your president would not be pushing ahead with his health care reforms. yes you can believe that socialism is a bad thing that cuz you believe all the lies & propaganda from the drug compaines & that they would buy of any member of congress to make sure that what obama is attempting will not happen. happened with hiliary clinton i thought she had a good plan but cuz they paid her off it never happened. i will defend moore a thousand times to believe that he tells the truth of what really happens in the so called land of the free. i am not attacking america i am just voicing my opinion. i would love to come to your country some day which i do not know when that will be

Deltamatic · Post by **Deltamatic** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:37

So you're saying that capitalism is inherently evil, drug companies' propaganda is the reason many people think socialism is bad, and a documentary revealed the truth about it.
At this point I say that capitalism is not inherently evil, drug companies' propaganda consists of advertisements, people think that socialism is bad due to its track record, and a documentary was made by people who sadly haven't grasped the full truth of the matter and as such have produced a documentary with some bad information.

Lava89 · Post by **Lava89** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:45

Rorie wrote:thanx to this movie i learnt that capitalism is evil

I know this has been said before, but....isn't it terribly ironic that Michael Moore is benefiting and profiting from capitalism?

Rorie · Post by **Rorie** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:48

Deltamatic wrote:So you're saying that capitalism is inherently evil, drug companies' propaganda is the reason many people think socialism is bad, and a documentary revealed the truth about it.
At this point I say that capitalism is not inherently evil, drug companies' propaganda consists of advertisements, people think that socialism is bad due to its track record, and a documentary was made by people who sadly haven't grasped the full truth of the matter and as such have produced a documentary with some bad information.

socialism isn't bad. canada australia & many other nations have socialized health care and cuz of it they live way longer than you yanks do

TerminILL · Post by **TerminILL** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:51

At this point I am saying that you didn't watch the documentary, you are going off what you managed to interpret from another man's interpretation of it, and you are mostly right. But Michael Moore, while controversial, never makes a badly-researched doco.

Of course, I have yet to see the doco either. So anyone who has seen it and has a conflicting opinion, feel free to tell me that Michael Moore is going downhill.

EDIT: The above two post appeared while I was writing this. This was a direct response to Deltamatic's post.

Post by **tulip** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:53

Haven't seen it yet, but I expect it to be as terribly biased as his others where. What people still have to get about Moore, is that he doesn't make documentaries, he does polemics. It was never his intention to show the whole truth. He's quite aware I think that his "docos" are lopsided. I'm not saying a polemic is essentially bad. It can make you see things clearer (it is also a common technique in historical science), but you have to identify it as one.

One thing you got wrong already is this: Capitalism isn't evil, neither is communism or any other social structure. Man is evil.

The problem with capitalism today is that we have forgotten why money was invented in the first place To facilitate trade, so you don't have to take several kilos of potatos to the market in order to get a pig. Money is not there to collect as much as you can.

lemm · Post by **lemm** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 15:23

I think he's just trying to make money off of the public outrage over bank bailouts, which the media tells me is rather prevalent these days...

Lava89 · Post by **Lava89** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 17:29

tulip wrote: One thing you got wrong already is this: Capitalism isn't evil, neither is communism or any other social structure. Man is evil.

I agree. I think alot of people mish-mash Capitalism with greed. And yeah I don't believe communism is evil either. I just don't think it realistically works.

I also don't like to see socialist ideas creep into America. If countries like Russia and China want to be socialist or communist that's their choice, but what has it done for them? Yet before some of the earliest socialist ideas hit the US, we've had capitalism serve America well. Why do so many people come to America? It's because of the social structure that was set up.

But yeah, one way or another man will use whatever social structure that they have to serve their fleshly desires. Whether it's capitalism to help their greed, or communism to control people's lives.

Post by **Ceilick** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:02

I hadn't heard the term 'polemic' before, very interesting and seems very true of Moore's films.

One thing you got wrong already is this: Capitalism isn't evil, neither is communism or any other social structure. Man is evil.

Definately agree here. People, both intentionally and unintentionally, mess things up. They corrupt capitalism, they corrupt socialism.

The problem with capitalism today is that we have forgotten why money was invented in the first place To facilitate trade, so you don't have to take several kilos of potatos to the market in order to get a pig. Money is not there to collect as much as you can.

I dont know if this is true or not, it seems like it may, but either way, well said.

VikingBoyBilly · Post by **VikingBoyBilly** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:06

I'd rather be pushed around like a sheep by an overseeing ruler and know what I'm going to be doing for the rest of my life than to be trying to "make it" in a world where everyone's judged by how much money they make and technology/standard of living is more important than ancestry and relationships and traditional values. Of course, I only tried the latter, so who am I to judge how much better the former would be

TerminILL · Post by **TerminILL** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:22

Communism is great on paper, but human greed means that whoever is in charge starts giving less and less to everyone else.

Now, people also confuse communism with dictatorship, totalitarianism etc. I blame the fact that all the countries with communist governments also had dictatorship/totalitarianism rule. Communism doesn't mean being pushed around.

Also this debate is getting a bit weird.

Deltamatic · Post by **Deltamatic** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:57

@Rorie: the life expectancy thing isn't solely dependent on healthcare. For instance, the US has more cancer, heart disease, and diabetes than any of those countries you mentioned, not because of bad healthcare but because more people have them or get them in the first place. Besides that, the US has a higher rate of homicides and suicides, and a larger active military.
@VikingBoyBilly: I'd rather be in a capitalist country because my capacity to help others would be higher, what with the whole collecting money thing.
@humans messing up all political systems no matter what: agree.

Rorie · Post by **Rorie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:39

from what i have seen by many of you yanks. maby i was wrong to suggest capitalism was a bad thing but that ain't gonna deter me from watching micheal moore's doco's. he is a good person & people need to understand that. still i would love to visit the u,s someday (it's not like i'm anti-american or anything which i am not) & see how your laws work. i also know that not every american is going to point a gun at me to rob or try to kill me. that happens all the time in australia & other parts of the world. so america & australia are very much the same in the gun crime category but different laws & currency (at the moment A$1 is worth 91.92 us cents) which is a good rate to encourage people to visit the states but due to the gfc people are cutting back on overseas travel. by saying all this. i'd still love to visit the u.s someday even canada

TerminILL · Post by **TerminILL** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:04

We Australians have gun crime? Do tell.

Rorie · Post by **Rorie** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:15

Draik wrote:We Australians have gun crime? Do tell.

watch the news you hear about it all the time

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